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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dualazi" data-source="post: 7187998" data-attributes="member: 6855537">Not really, no. In fact, that supports my assertion for the need for balance and Wizard’s attempts to meet that goal. While there are a few outliers, almost every class was designed to contribute in both arenas to some respect. All of those positives are a result of striving towards balance, and going the opposite way I think we can agree would be detrimental to the game. Balance is desirable regardless of complexity.Not true at all. Optimized just means you’re specialized towards a specific task. You can have an optimized melee cleric and an optimized blaster cleric, each with their strengths and drawbacks. Again, this goes back to the importance of balance. In a game like 3e, there are clear winners and losers in that comparison, in 5e it harder to explicitly declare a victor. Good balancing means there are more options, not less.Not to be rude, but inexperienced or willfully obtuse players isn’t a defense. I’ve had characters play very unoptimized or underpowered characters and enjoy it, usually right up until an actual optimized player blows them out of the water in a similar field. Once again though, and I’m sure people are tired of hearing it, this is a defense of the idea of balance, that 5e gets it “close enough” that players don’t feel obligated to min-max out of necessity. Yeah that didn’t help for sure, around 5e I started wishing they would just make 2 tracks of feats, one explicitly for combat and one of non-combat, which sort of came true with backgrounds and the like.I think that was the lesser of two evils given how prior editions were bigger on the use of scrolls and wands to fortify spell lists.Definitely agreed. The versatility of spellcasters in D&D has been one of the biggest enemies of effective balance in its cumulative history I think, but fans rioted when 4e tried to change that so I really just have to make peace with it not going anywhere.Eh anecdotes are just that unfortunately, because for my part I’ve experienced min-maxers damaging the game with out-of-combat optimization as well as the more common combat version. Running a non-standard game certainly helps reduce the likelihood of it occurring, but I maintain that the underlying system still needs a decent level of balance still.</blockquote>

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