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Message: <blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5733758" data-attributes="member: 35909">People don't overrate dwarves.  Dwarves really are that good.  But, let's compare...Stats: I think Con is more important that dex, but let's say they're equally important to the wizard.  Both races boost a seconary stat.  But dwarf drop a dump stat, elf hurts an important one.  Dwarf wins by a lot.Vision: Darkvision is better than low-light vision.  Dwarf wins.Speed: Elf is faster, dwarf is unhindered when encumbered which might be handy at times, but not often enough for a Wizard.  At mid/high levels, the wizard is flying and this is irrelevant.  Till then, Elf wins.Saves/immunities: Elf gets +2 vs. enchantment and sleep immunity (non-magical sleep such as from poison still works, though).  Dwarf gets...+2 on ALL saves vs. spells, Sp, and poison.  Dwarf wins handily!Proficiencies: Elf gives some, but all are either melee weapons or apply str penalty to ranged damage, unlike the awesome crossbow.  Still Elf wins by default.Sleeping: Don't know what else to call this category.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Point is, Elf gets to spend half his spell replenishment time able to make spot checks and not listening at -10.  Soon as the wizard hits 5th level (if he has Extend Spell) or 8th level (if not), this is mostly irrelevant.  Elf wins, though.Skills: Elves get +2 on all the perception skills and free check to notice secret doors and such.  Dwarf can intuit depth, gets +2 search on stonework and trapfinding, and has a longer "sixth sense" range for secret stone things than elves do in general <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt="(:" title="Smile    (:"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname="(:" />p).  He also gets +2 craft and appraise for stone/metal.  I'm calling this even.Stability: Dwarves win by default.Attack bonuses: Dwarf wins by default.Giant dodging: Dwarf wins by default.In any case, dwarf was clearly not designed to be great at wizardry, and yet it's clearly better at it than the race that is supposed to be good at it.  Both because elves suck and dwarves are really powerful.</blockquote>

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