Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[Radiant Citadel] A chart of parallel Earth cultures and motifs across the D&D Multiverse
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ripzerai" data-source="post: 8712623" data-attributes="member: 38324"><p><em>Because I'm not talking about intent there. I'm talking about what the canon actually states. I think you have an ethical responsibility, in the service of clearly informing your readers, to distinguish between the two.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>This is the same logic as stating "Gygax has said he envisioned the Flan as Black, but the actual source materials are vague on this point." Design intent is interesting! But the actual canon is what the source material states. </em></p><p></p><p><em>I think, rather, I'd say "Nippon" was clearly intended as a Japan stand-in, but the source materials are vague enough that it could fairly be interpreted in other ways. It doesn't have to be a real-world analogue at all, for that matter. </em></p><p></p><p>Your assumption that it should be Korea is based on what you think would be a logical companion to a fictional Japan. But that's no different from me assuming it should be Indochina based on what I think would be a logical companion to a fictional India and China. Your speculation here isn't superior to mine, or more based on published sources. </p><p></p><p>No, the Nippon Dominion is not most obviously Korea. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm distinguishing "this is what the source material tells us" from "this is what the authors likely had in mind." It's fair to state that there's an official map that says "Nippon" on it, and point out that this is likely meant to be a counterpart to Japan. If you want to speculate further based on which nations are near Japan on real life, that's fine, but that's brings you into much hazier territory.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, you're telling me what you think is a logical conclusion based on the presence of neighboring countries. Which is also what I was doing. </p><p></p><p>The name Ryuujin comes from "<a href="https://greyhawkonline.com/greyhawkwiki/Greyhawk_2000" target="_blank">Greyhawk 2000</a>" in Dragon #277. The name appears without much context; there's a reference to "the closed markets of Ryuujin" in "the far corners of the Oerth" and, later, references to technology first developed in Ryuujin.</p><p></p><p>What there isn't is a map showing the location of Ryuujin, or any other indication where Ryuujin might be. It's probably, by authorial intent, intended to be a replacement name for "Nippon," but again canon doesn't state this, and that's worth distinguishing.</p><p></p><p>"Greyhawk 2000" is, of course, it's own paraverse in your terminology, set over 1500 years in Oerth's future.</p><p></p><p>And what countries were protectorates of Japan in the real world mean even less when it comes to designing fantasy continents. If "how things work on Earth doesn't matter" is your operating principle here, then why are you wasting our time telling me about the relationship between Japan, China, and Korea on Earth? </p><p></p><p></p><p>Is the purpose of your chart to insert your own speculation and pretend it's official? I didn't suggest you should include my speculation—you should definitely not write "Oerth has an Indochina" on your list, because that's merely something I think makes the most sense, not what canon tells us. But by the same token, you should be cautious about identifying it as Korea when canon tells us almost nothing about it.</p><p></p><p>I mean, you are, you just aren't self-aware enough to notice it when it's your own interpretations at issue. </p><p></p><p>Perhaps, in the "Greyhawk 2000" paraverse. It's a solid guess, but there's nothing definitive. It would be a stretch to say that Ryuujin is the canon name of those island chains based on vague references in an article set in a possible future. In any case, you should, in the interest of informing your readers, note the source and context of the name. </p><p></p><p></p><p>This is possible, but note that the article in question reveals neither the shape nor the location of Ryuujin.</p><p></p><p>Sure, why not, maybe the world is a jigsaw puzzle with no rhyme or reason, maybe climate has no major effect on cultures, and maybe being across a narrow sea from India, and a subcontinent-sized peninsula away from China, makes no difference either, because all Asian countries are interchangeable. Except "the proximity of cultures to other cultures matters" was the main basis of your decision to associate the Nippon Dominion with Korea.</p><p></p><p>I think, if you're going to include speculation—and that's what you've been doing—then you should probably note that, and distinguish it from clearly stated facts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ripzerai, post: 8712623, member: 38324"] [I]Because I'm not talking about intent there. I'm talking about what the canon actually states. I think you have an ethical responsibility, in the service of clearly informing your readers, to distinguish between the two. This is the same logic as stating "Gygax has said he envisioned the Flan as Black, but the actual source materials are vague on this point." Design intent is interesting! But the actual canon is what the source material states. [/I] [I]I think, rather, I'd say "Nippon" was clearly intended as a Japan stand-in, but the source materials are vague enough that it could fairly be interpreted in other ways. It doesn't have to be a real-world analogue at all, for that matter. [/I] Your assumption that it should be Korea is based on what you think would be a logical companion to a fictional Japan. But that's no different from me assuming it should be Indochina based on what I think would be a logical companion to a fictional India and China. Your speculation here isn't superior to mine, or more based on published sources. No, the Nippon Dominion is not most obviously Korea. I'm distinguishing "this is what the source material tells us" from "this is what the authors likely had in mind." It's fair to state that there's an official map that says "Nippon" on it, and point out that this is likely meant to be a counterpart to Japan. If you want to speculate further based on which nations are near Japan on real life, that's fine, but that's brings you into much hazier territory. Again, you're telling me what you think is a logical conclusion based on the presence of neighboring countries. Which is also what I was doing. The name Ryuujin comes from "[URL='https://greyhawkonline.com/greyhawkwiki/Greyhawk_2000']Greyhawk 2000[/URL]" in Dragon #277. The name appears without much context; there's a reference to "the closed markets of Ryuujin" in "the far corners of the Oerth" and, later, references to technology first developed in Ryuujin. What there isn't is a map showing the location of Ryuujin, or any other indication where Ryuujin might be. It's probably, by authorial intent, intended to be a replacement name for "Nippon," but again canon doesn't state this, and that's worth distinguishing. "Greyhawk 2000" is, of course, it's own paraverse in your terminology, set over 1500 years in Oerth's future. And what countries were protectorates of Japan in the real world mean even less when it comes to designing fantasy continents. If "how things work on Earth doesn't matter" is your operating principle here, then why are you wasting our time telling me about the relationship between Japan, China, and Korea on Earth? Is the purpose of your chart to insert your own speculation and pretend it's official? I didn't suggest you should include my speculation—you should definitely not write "Oerth has an Indochina" on your list, because that's merely something I think makes the most sense, not what canon tells us. But by the same token, you should be cautious about identifying it as Korea when canon tells us almost nothing about it. I mean, you are, you just aren't self-aware enough to notice it when it's your own interpretations at issue. Perhaps, in the "Greyhawk 2000" paraverse. It's a solid guess, but there's nothing definitive. It would be a stretch to say that Ryuujin is the canon name of those island chains based on vague references in an article set in a possible future. In any case, you should, in the interest of informing your readers, note the source and context of the name. This is possible, but note that the article in question reveals neither the shape nor the location of Ryuujin. Sure, why not, maybe the world is a jigsaw puzzle with no rhyme or reason, maybe climate has no major effect on cultures, and maybe being across a narrow sea from India, and a subcontinent-sized peninsula away from China, makes no difference either, because all Asian countries are interchangeable. Except "the proximity of cultures to other cultures matters" was the main basis of your decision to associate the Nippon Dominion with Korea. I think, if you're going to include speculation—and that's what you've been doing—then you should probably note that, and distinguish it from clearly stated facts. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[Radiant Citadel] A chart of parallel Earth cultures and motifs across the D&D Multiverse
Top