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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 9447882" data-attributes="member: 20323">[USER=7045806]@DinoInDisguise[/USER] Interestingly, the Ancient Green Dragon (2024/25) has DEX save proficiency +8, and it's Initiative happens to be +8. I do understand the counterarguments from [USER=6779196]@Charlaquin[/USER] and [USER=6796468]@Steampunkette[/USER] in that having just one number is zooming out on the lens, so there's less tight control/alternate uses the GM has when there's more zoomed in granularity. So it's definitely getting into personal preference / design philosophy stuff.I thought I'd put my money where my mouth is and look at that Ancient Green Dragon stats with an eye for how it might be made more manageable... I'll start with finished side-by-side comparison, then backtrack...[ATTACH=full]378359[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]378357[/ATTACH]How did I get that? To start, I'm not questioning the foundational 5e design stuff – even if there are perfectly good reasons to do so. Rather, I'm coming at this through primarily a layout / information presentation / usability lens. A GM or designer could definitely INTENSIFY this "shrinking" by questioning game mechanics for sure... I just wanted experiment with what's possible within the constraints, so I'm bending but not breaking what's there...[ATTACH=full]378347[/ATTACH][SPOILER="Verbose and controversial explanation"]For me, there's a couple things here that have been issues in terms of finding the info I need & mental strain/fatigue... it's easy to say "oh I can handle that monster no problem" when looking at it in isolation, but - at least for me - it's when placed in actual play where I'm tracking a bunch of other things that it becomes burdensome. Anyhow, some things I notice...Lots to Track: It's not just HP, conditions, and spells... but also Legendary Resistances, Recharge, and # Reactions used. This isn't different from 2014 legendary monsters, but it is a lot for the GM to keep in mind. IME unless I'm really "on" that night, the more my mental energy goes into tracking this stuff, the less mental capacity I have for great narrative and the rest of the game. It's not a zero-sum game, but there IS an influence - at least for me."Dead Space" Traits: Do I really need a dictionary definition of Amphibious or could that be a tag added in [brackets] after the monster type or its swim speed? Similarly, Battle Ready feels like it should be in the Initiative line rather than pulled apart as a one-off trait that I'm not going to look at for the rest of the combat, yet still takes up space.Legendary Resistance: I'm really not sure what the extra use in Lair is adding – assuming Lair Actions are still in the game, those are plenty of reason for a party to want to lure a dragon out of its lair / avoid it in its lair.Multiattack: This could be greatly tightened up, along with Rend, for example...Spellcasting. There's already good reason to provide mini-descriptions of spells in the stat block... though this is more for people using physical medium rather than DNDBeyond where you can have hyperlinks – so I get why WotC is not interested in "spelling out" spells (sorry pun). However, when including upcast spells in a monster's stats, that creates an extra bit of reading the GM needs to track down to determine number of targets. Fine for a GM who has no trouble remember that Charm Monster is 4th level, and upcast at 5th gives it two targets instead of 1... but... not every GM is going to be there even when running high level. For me it's a question of WHICH spells get brief descriptions – and my go-to there is spells which have immediate combat application... Charm Monster, Dissonant Whispers, and Cloudkill. The others are more narrative spells used outside of combat (usually). These descriptions would need to be super brief in the 1-3 lines range.Poison Breath: It's interesting how we insist on writing out "saving throw" rather than the colloquial "save" in stat blocks... But even keeping that, I think this could be tightened...Reactions: "Introduction" to legendary reactions language can be tightened to two lines, and I think the "Trigger:" doesn't really save words compared to "When" and in some cases adds words without adding clarity, e.g. "Trigger: Another creature..." vs. "When a creature..." Also I can see tightening each of these, for example there is tons of space wasted on "a creature the dragon can see" type language throughout the monster books, so here's an idea...Since "a creature the dragon can see" is baked into Charm Monster, no need to repeat that here.This is only 57 words compared to the 63 of the stat block above, but it isn't only a little more succinct, but it's also clarifying the narrative of what's happening. Clarifying that's it's a poison GAS also more readily cues the GM in that strong winds might disperse it or magic items making one immune to gases would apply. And it's doing that with fewer words.Less words, same idea.[/SPOILER]</blockquote>

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