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Message: <blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 4669628" data-attributes="member: 35909">Exactly, just as the huge size and tick hide is represented as the massive nat armor bonus.  I didn't say a size limit because there shouldn't be one.  For one thing, you cannot start a grapple with something more than one size bigger than you anyway, so this can't be used offensively if the gigantic foe doesn't want to grapple.  Secondly, if it grapples you, and you have such an amazing grapple mod that you can actually pin the thing to begin with, why is it such a stretch that you can prevent it from biting?Ok, to answer these questions.  Pinned does not make you helpless.  Your effective dex does not drop, though you do lose dex to AC against other attackers, just as in a regular grapple.  You would also be prone, which should add those modifiers to the equation.  Reflex saves while pinned were always odd for me, never sure what the right way to rule is.  It's hard or impossible to roll out of the way of a fireball, yeah.  But you're also getting some cover from the guy on top of you. (Which wouldn't help against spells like Earthquake, granted).  And typically, he wants to avoid it, too.  If he doesn't, like a red dragon pinning you so an ally can fireball you, maybe you should auto-fail, or at least have to win an opposed grapple check just to make the reflex save at all.  This is completely houserule territory, though.Back to the pinned =/= helpless thing,check out Book of Vile Darkness on execution for some rules that COMPLETELY go against the RAW. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />(Says you can attempt to execute a pinned foe, and if you fail the check, you "merely" CDG him, something you can typically only do when someone IS helpless.  I really want to make a greatsword-wielding executioner some day.  Needs a grapple monkey partner, though.)For more rules on what you may be looking for, check out Justicar in C.Warrior.  He can do things like hog-tie or apply manacles while grappling/pinning.  Class would make a great Inspector Zenigata.</blockquote>

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