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Raiders of the Serpent Sea - Third Party 5E Review
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<blockquote data-quote="Sparky McDibben" data-source="post: 9208509" data-attributes="member: 7041430"><p>Oh, just wait. The next chapter is supposed to kill the PCs. Hopefully it's now clear where the frustration was coming from in earlier portions of this review, though I'll concede that I need to work on my style a bit.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 8 is called Return to Drifthall, and it's where the PCs return to Drifthall. Apt.</p><p></p><p>The two things that happen in this chapter are the election of a new Alljarl and the attack of Boda the Matron. The choices of Alljarl depend on how the PCs have handled clan politics thus far - some clans may have straight up left, and some may loathe the PCs. Regardless, the outcome doesn't depend entirely on the PCs, which I like! There's voting involved, but it seems like the ballots would go on too long, and there are almost certainly outcomes that result in a hung jury.</p><p></p><p>However, the choice of who gets to be Alljarl has some really interesting consequences (one of the choices will militarize all of society, but that means there's no food available after Ragnarok, leading to massive famine, for example). This is good and smart, and I wish that kind of forethought had gone into what comes next.</p><p></p><p>After that, all the clans depart. The volv, preparing to journey back to the Well of Wisdom, start prepping their giant fish that pull Drifthall.</p><p></p><p>And that's when Boda and a giant sea serpent (Ormur) attack.</p><p></p><p>To be clear, Boda's a CR 24 opponent, and Ormur is CR 25. Here's a picture of the giant sea serpent, for scale:</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/6BHETur.png" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p> <p style="text-align: center"><em>I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER!!!</em></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p>They're joined by three CR 13 corpse swallowers (picture a roc plus a pterodactyl and you've got the general idea).</p><p></p><p>To be clear, this is rigged against the PCs - the only way out is dying. If the PCs flee, Ormur hunts them down and Boda is a flying spellcaster with ranged attacks out the wazoo. If they fight, they're almost certain to die. If, by some miracle any PCs survive, one of the seers (with their dying breath) tells the PCs that they have to get to Valhalla, by (you guessed it!) dying valiantly in combat.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and at the end, the sun and moon are being extinguished. So, bad times all around.</p><p></p><p>Look, I happen to think that the PCs being railroaded into a combat they cannot win is <em>extremely</em> bad form. I think this could have been avoided with better adventuring and structural design, but that would take us to another patented McDibben ....</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER="How I Would Do It"]</p><p>First of all, we need to be scattering clues to the witches ultimate scheme well in advance of those schemes coming to fruition. Yes, it's great that the witches subverted the giants, and the Underworld, and were doing weird stuff with the wolves. But ultimately, we need to be doing way more foreshadowing. The PCs need to come across multiple clues to the "killing the sun" scheme, for example, especially in the Ironwood Forest.</p><p></p><p>Next, we need the volv to put these pieces together, if the PCs don't, realizing that Boda's plan is to destroy Valhalla and stop the honorable dead from fighting at Ragnarok. And finally, we need to give the PCs a choice: You can get to Valhalla by dying in battle (run the Boda/Ormur fight), or have the volv open a gate, sacrificing themselves to buy the heroes time as Boda obliterates the last of the seers. As the PCs enter Valhalla, that's when the sun begins to darken.</p><p></p><p>Finally, we need consequences for that choice. Maybe if the PCs let the volv sacrifice themselves, it reduces the forces available at Ragnarok, but denies Boda more intel on the PCs. Maybe if they choose to fight Boda, the PCs learn what she can do, but can uncover some key weakness in her strategy or mechanics.</p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>Total score is hard to assign here. It gets the PCs to the next leg of the adventure, which is the goal. But it does so in the least interesting and least effective path. For doing what it does, I'd give it a 6 / 10; for rating how it does what it does, I'd give it a 4 / 10. Averaging it out - we'll say about 5 / 10.</p><p></p><p>Alright, y'all, next up the PCs go to the Halls of the Slain! And here's where the adventure breaks new ground: we've seen railroads before...but how many <em>circular</em> railroads have we seen?</p><p></p><p>Those of you familiar with the old Norse myths (or Rick Riordan's retellings) will know that in Valhalla, the heroic dead spend all day fighting to the death, only to be resurrected and then spend all night feasting.</p><p></p><p>Now, that might seem pretty cool to some of you, but to me it's the best possible rendition of <em>Groundhog Day.</em></p><p style="text-align: center"><em><img src="https://media.tenor.com/TH2Qr5ikbvcAAAAC/stop-the-car-road.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></em></p> <p style="text-align: center"><em>Now imagine Viking Bill Murray <em>stabbing the absolute crap out of that truck.</em> FOR GLORY!!!!</em></p><p></p><p>But it doesn't make for a very compelling D&D adventure, because it removes all the stakes. So basically, the PCs get stuck in a time loop, trying to break out of it in order to help save Valhalla.</p><p></p><p>So, couple of things before we get started:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Valhalla's on the moon (also, it's spelled slightly differently in the book, but I'm going to keep calling it Valhalla because that's the name we're all familiar with)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The adventure splits everything into three time states: The Beginning, when Valhalla is just getting started, The Middle, when Valhalla is at its height, and The Now, which is when Valhalla is, well, now.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">When the PCs long rest or die, the time state advances, and it's cyclical, so the Now resets to the Beginning.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This whole place is run by Thonir, who is Hel's love, and the only guy to ever beat Boda in a fight.</li> </ul><p>The PCs have to convince a crusty old rune-smith dwarf to build them a boat, get a map from Thonir, and then wake up a bunch of dragons. The dragons (whom Thonir lulled to sleep), can be used to fight what Boda's doing to the sun, and break her hold on Valhalla, allowing the righteous dead to show up at Ragnarok.</p><p></p><p>Of course, in so doing, the PCs also take responsibility for the dragons showing up in Grimnir after Ragnarok.</p><p></p><p>The PCs then sail to another island with the dragons, fight their way through a bunch of really nasty monsters, stop the sun from being consumed, and then get back to Grimnir.</p><p></p><p>So here's my problems with the adventure:</p><p></p><p>1) The decision to have time-states means that almost every event or location has three different sub-states for it, often varying wildly in ways that make them more or less interesting (so that the content the PCs need will not be there, depending on the time-state). This is irritating, because the PCs just have to long rest to activate that content (by moving the time state forward).</p><p></p><p>2) There's a lot of time-sensitive stuff going on here, but at only one point is time actually relevant: whether or not they choose to short rest before they try to stop the sun being eaten. If they do short rest, the sun is like 90% eaten, and Grimnir becomes a frozen hellscape forever more. So there's a lot of just kind of extraneous information here.</p><p></p><p>Things I like:</p><p></p><p>1) The bit with the dragons. Having PCs introduce dragons to the world is a great choice and I love it, well done.</p><p></p><p>Soooo...</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER="How I Would Do It"]</p><p>Just cut out the time loop. Most of the rest of this is pretty solid. It's a pointcrawl, with clues scattered about. It's effectively done, it's just the writers got too clever by half.</p><p></p><p>Next, put the PCs on a timer. They can see the sun being eaten, so that tells them how much time they've got left. Strip out everything else - they don't have to build a ship, the dwarf will sail it for them...if they can prove themselves in single combat against him. Just make it so that if anyone dies in Valhalla, they come back to life that night. Thonir will give them the map if they can prove their gumption by making him laugh. He'll also suggest the dragons, and point out where they are.</p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>For this section: 6 / 10. The material is well done, but the effort to hack out all the noise reduces it's utility.</p><p></p><p>Next time, friendos! Next time the PCs wake the very gods! And oh, there will be DMPCs.</p><p></p><p>Oh yes, there <em>will</em> be DMPCs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sparky McDibben, post: 9208509, member: 7041430"] Oh, just wait. The next chapter is supposed to kill the PCs. Hopefully it's now clear where the frustration was coming from in earlier portions of this review, though I'll concede that I need to work on my style a bit. Chapter 8 is called Return to Drifthall, and it's where the PCs return to Drifthall. Apt. The two things that happen in this chapter are the election of a new Alljarl and the attack of Boda the Matron. The choices of Alljarl depend on how the PCs have handled clan politics thus far - some clans may have straight up left, and some may loathe the PCs. Regardless, the outcome doesn't depend entirely on the PCs, which I like! There's voting involved, but it seems like the ballots would go on too long, and there are almost certainly outcomes that result in a hung jury. However, the choice of who gets to be Alljarl has some really interesting consequences (one of the choices will militarize all of society, but that means there's no food available after Ragnarok, leading to massive famine, for example). This is good and smart, and I wish that kind of forethought had gone into what comes next. After that, all the clans depart. The volv, preparing to journey back to the Well of Wisdom, start prepping their giant fish that pull Drifthall. And that's when Boda and a giant sea serpent (Ormur) attack. To be clear, Boda's a CR 24 opponent, and Ormur is CR 25. Here's a picture of the giant sea serpent, for scale: [CENTER][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/6BHETur.png[/IMG] [I]I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER!!![/I] [/CENTER] They're joined by three CR 13 corpse swallowers (picture a roc plus a pterodactyl and you've got the general idea). To be clear, this is rigged against the PCs - the only way out is dying. If the PCs flee, Ormur hunts them down and Boda is a flying spellcaster with ranged attacks out the wazoo. If they fight, they're almost certain to die. If, by some miracle any PCs survive, one of the seers (with their dying breath) tells the PCs that they have to get to Valhalla, by (you guessed it!) dying valiantly in combat. Oh, and at the end, the sun and moon are being extinguished. So, bad times all around. Look, I happen to think that the PCs being railroaded into a combat they cannot win is [I]extremely[/I] bad form. I think this could have been avoided with better adventuring and structural design, but that would take us to another patented McDibben .... [SPOILER="How I Would Do It"] First of all, we need to be scattering clues to the witches ultimate scheme well in advance of those schemes coming to fruition. Yes, it's great that the witches subverted the giants, and the Underworld, and were doing weird stuff with the wolves. But ultimately, we need to be doing way more foreshadowing. The PCs need to come across multiple clues to the "killing the sun" scheme, for example, especially in the Ironwood Forest. Next, we need the volv to put these pieces together, if the PCs don't, realizing that Boda's plan is to destroy Valhalla and stop the honorable dead from fighting at Ragnarok. And finally, we need to give the PCs a choice: You can get to Valhalla by dying in battle (run the Boda/Ormur fight), or have the volv open a gate, sacrificing themselves to buy the heroes time as Boda obliterates the last of the seers. As the PCs enter Valhalla, that's when the sun begins to darken. Finally, we need consequences for that choice. Maybe if the PCs let the volv sacrifice themselves, it reduces the forces available at Ragnarok, but denies Boda more intel on the PCs. Maybe if they choose to fight Boda, the PCs learn what she can do, but can uncover some key weakness in her strategy or mechanics. [/SPOILER] Total score is hard to assign here. It gets the PCs to the next leg of the adventure, which is the goal. But it does so in the least interesting and least effective path. For doing what it does, I'd give it a 6 / 10; for rating how it does what it does, I'd give it a 4 / 10. Averaging it out - we'll say about 5 / 10. Alright, y'all, next up the PCs go to the Halls of the Slain! And here's where the adventure breaks new ground: we've seen railroads before...but how many [I]circular[/I] railroads have we seen? Those of you familiar with the old Norse myths (or Rick Riordan's retellings) will know that in Valhalla, the heroic dead spend all day fighting to the death, only to be resurrected and then spend all night feasting. Now, that might seem pretty cool to some of you, but to me it's the best possible rendition of [I]Groundhog Day.[/I] [CENTER][I][IMG]https://media.tenor.com/TH2Qr5ikbvcAAAAC/stop-the-car-road.gif[/IMG] Now imagine Viking Bill Murray [I]stabbing the absolute crap out of that truck.[/I] FOR GLORY!!!![/I][/CENTER] But it doesn't make for a very compelling D&D adventure, because it removes all the stakes. So basically, the PCs get stuck in a time loop, trying to break out of it in order to help save Valhalla. So, couple of things before we get started: [LIST] [*]Valhalla's on the moon (also, it's spelled slightly differently in the book, but I'm going to keep calling it Valhalla because that's the name we're all familiar with) [*]The adventure splits everything into three time states: The Beginning, when Valhalla is just getting started, The Middle, when Valhalla is at its height, and The Now, which is when Valhalla is, well, now. [*]When the PCs long rest or die, the time state advances, and it's cyclical, so the Now resets to the Beginning. [*]This whole place is run by Thonir, who is Hel's love, and the only guy to ever beat Boda in a fight. [/LIST] The PCs have to convince a crusty old rune-smith dwarf to build them a boat, get a map from Thonir, and then wake up a bunch of dragons. The dragons (whom Thonir lulled to sleep), can be used to fight what Boda's doing to the sun, and break her hold on Valhalla, allowing the righteous dead to show up at Ragnarok. Of course, in so doing, the PCs also take responsibility for the dragons showing up in Grimnir after Ragnarok. The PCs then sail to another island with the dragons, fight their way through a bunch of really nasty monsters, stop the sun from being consumed, and then get back to Grimnir. So here's my problems with the adventure: 1) The decision to have time-states means that almost every event or location has three different sub-states for it, often varying wildly in ways that make them more or less interesting (so that the content the PCs need will not be there, depending on the time-state). This is irritating, because the PCs just have to long rest to activate that content (by moving the time state forward). 2) There's a lot of time-sensitive stuff going on here, but at only one point is time actually relevant: whether or not they choose to short rest before they try to stop the sun being eaten. If they do short rest, the sun is like 90% eaten, and Grimnir becomes a frozen hellscape forever more. So there's a lot of just kind of extraneous information here. Things I like: 1) The bit with the dragons. Having PCs introduce dragons to the world is a great choice and I love it, well done. Soooo... [I][/I] [SPOILER="How I Would Do It"] Just cut out the time loop. Most of the rest of this is pretty solid. It's a pointcrawl, with clues scattered about. It's effectively done, it's just the writers got too clever by half. Next, put the PCs on a timer. They can see the sun being eaten, so that tells them how much time they've got left. Strip out everything else - they don't have to build a ship, the dwarf will sail it for them...if they can prove themselves in single combat against him. Just make it so that if anyone dies in Valhalla, they come back to life that night. Thonir will give them the map if they can prove their gumption by making him laugh. He'll also suggest the dragons, and point out where they are. [/SPOILER] For this section: 6 / 10. The material is well done, but the effort to hack out all the noise reduces it's utility. Next time, friendos! Next time the PCs wake the very gods! And oh, there will be DMPCs. Oh yes, there [I]will[/I] be DMPCs. [/QUOTE]
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