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<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5413065" data-attributes="member: 80487">I checked out &quot;No Myth&quot; at the Web page <a href="http://inky.org/rpg/no-myth.html" target="_blank">No Myth Roleplaying Summary</a>. As usual with Forge talk, I think we can substitute orders of magnitude fewer words:&quot;Make it up as you go along.&quot;Yes, there is a whole raft of assumptions unstated even on that Web page -- and, I'll bet, at the Forge generally.For instance, &quot;nothing you haven't said to the group exists&quot; makes a campaign in the old sense practically impossible if the world that Jack and Dianne have been playing in &quot;disappears&quot; for Lucy and Desi until they get the lowdown on each particular part. The Monolithic Party of players is pretty well taken for granted.&quot;The [non-GM] players are the protagonists of the story&quot; of course presumes the existence of &quot;the story&quot; in the first place. Without it, we need no more than the trivially conventional &quot;the players are playing the game.&quot;In this case, &quot;the story&quot; boils down to &quot;genre definition&quot;. I think it unlikely that many folks -- even those enamored of very literary conceits -- would really want an RPG unconstrained by the rules of a genre to some degree. I see that problems have arisen in D&amp;D because of decisions to market the game to people hostile to the genre rules that informed its framework.That framework or set of initial premises has very little weight on it relative to the burden that genre bears here. In &quot;No Myth&quot;, clichés (no surprise that RISUS was basically designed to run this way) effectively are the world unless/until someone stipulates otherwise.It's basically what I do in my totally off the cuff D&amp;D sessions -- except that I draw as well on a body of established facts that particular players may or may not know, and that I let the dice fall as they may rather than give PCs any more &quot;protagonist bennies&quot; than the game rules do.(I don't run such sessions often, because they tend to get pretty bizarre. The &quot;D&amp;D genre&quot; as I have known it encompasses all sorts of trippy stuff. That was especially true in my 1978-87 game, but it's still an &quot;occupational hazard&quot;.)&nbsp;Standard at the Forge? This obviously does not apply to the vast majority of RPGs, in which things can (as in most worlds of fiction as well as in the real one) be either literally impossible or so ludicrously improbable that rolling for them at every opportunity would be a drag. &quot;I run across the Grand Canyon on thin air.&quot; &quot;With what magic?&quot; &quot;None, but we have to 'work out a conflict to roll dice for' anyway.&quot; &quot;No dice, pal! If you step over that precipice, expect to fall.&quot;There are in &quot;No Myth&quot; (at least per that Web page) also other aspects of a shift in emphasis away from the exploratory game and toward improvisational story telling.I suspect that the precipitous decline of strategy games such as the Avalon Hill classics, along with the rise of action-adventure hybrids with very strong story lines in video games (which are much more widespread), has contributed to a shift in assumptions and expectations in the RPG-playing demographic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 5413065, member: 80487"] I checked out "No Myth" at the Web page [url=http://inky.org/rpg/no-myth.html]No Myth Roleplaying Summary[/url]. As usual with Forge talk, I think we can substitute orders of magnitude fewer words: "Make it up as you go along." Yes, there is a whole raft of assumptions unstated even on that Web page -- and, I'll bet, at the Forge generally. For instance, "nothing you haven't said to the group exists" makes a campaign in the old sense practically impossible if the world that Jack and Dianne have been playing in "disappears" for Lucy and Desi until they get the lowdown on each particular part. The Monolithic Party of players is pretty well taken for granted. "The [non-GM] players are the protagonists of the story" of course presumes the existence of "the story" in the first place. Without it, we need no more than the trivially conventional "the players are playing the game." In this case, "the story" boils down to "genre definition". I think it unlikely that many folks -- even those enamored of very literary conceits -- would really want an RPG unconstrained by the rules of a genre to [i]some[/i] degree. I see that problems have arisen in D&D because of decisions to market the game to people hostile to the genre rules that informed its framework. That framework or set of initial premises has very little weight on it relative to the burden that genre bears here. In "No Myth", clichés (no surprise that RISUS was basically designed to run this way) effectively [i]are[/i] the world unless/until someone stipulates otherwise. It's basically what I do in my totally off the cuff D&D sessions -- except that I draw as well on a body of established facts that particular players may or may not know, and that I let the dice fall as they may rather than give PCs any more "protagonist bennies" than the game rules do. (I don't run such sessions often, because they tend to get pretty bizarre. The "D&D genre" as I have known it encompasses all sorts of trippy stuff. That was especially true in my 1978-87 game, but it's still an "occupational hazard".) Standard at the Forge? This obviously does not apply to the vast majority of RPGs, in which things can (as in most worlds of fiction as well as in the real one) be either literally impossible or so ludicrously improbable that rolling for them at every opportunity would be a drag. "I run across the Grand Canyon on thin air." "With what magic?" "None, but we have to 'work out a conflict to roll dice for' anyway." "No dice, pal! If you step over that precipice, expect to fall." There are in "No Myth" (at least per that Web page) also other aspects of a shift in emphasis away from the [i]exploratory game[/i] and toward [i]improvisational story telling[/i]. I suspect that the precipitous decline of strategy games such as the Avalon Hill classics, along with the rise of action-adventure hybrids with very strong story lines in video games (which are much more widespread), has contributed to a shift in assumptions and expectations in the RPG-playing demographic. [/QUOTE]

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