Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 4123674" data-attributes="member: 957">I agree.  And that includes the 4e version of raise dead.  I don't buy that telling a peasant his wife can't be raised be she was of no consequence, and had no "destiny" would stop a riot any more than saying she can't be raised because there are no diamonds available.  So you are exactly right, some hand waving is pretty much always going to be mandated.But it is not a black and white issue.  You can take simulation to far and get to the point that nothing flows and you can take gamism to far and get to the point that nothing makes sense.  But there is a very wide middle ground.  As several WotC people have stated, 4e moves along that middle ground toward the gamism side.  And it is ok that a lot of people like that.  It is also ok that a lot of people don't.  There is a vast difference between wanting the on screen elements of the game to make sense and letting off screen stuff simply be understood boundary conditions that are hand waved.  And that doesn't remotely undermine simulation.  Anyone who thinks it does doesn't understand simulation.  It is amazing to me the people in this thread who for some internal reason can't simply state that they prefer gamism.  Instead they seem somehow oddly compelled to repeatedly attempt to force an absurd polarized mischaracterization of what simulation means onto the topic.  It really makes one wonder why they need to make a bunch of badwrongfun assaults on the idea.  If they were comfortable with their desire for simplicity, it seems they would just go along and play it their way.Quite simply, 3e was a more simulationist game.  If you are a pro-4e fan and you want to dispute that, then you are disputing WotC.  And another fact, 3e was a very popular system that did really well with a lot of people.  An honest open-minded view of simulation shows that it can and has worked and been highly popular and successful.  But anyone trapped forcing all-or-nothing on it will never be able to grasp that.</blockquote>

Verification