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Message: <blockquote data-quote="green slime" data-source="post: 980747" data-attributes="member: 1325">Never said it was. But I think that they way in which it combines, to screw with plots, campaigns, and the fact that it is too easy to raise the dead, all place it on my dislike pile. I'd much rather have a device for avoiding character death (even at low levels!), than need to constantly raise the dead.Not a problem really. I expect this information to be fairly obvious, if you have a relevant skill.Not a problem. Still needs to be memorized aforehand, or prepared ahead somehow. Doesn't really meddle with plots though. I can still make enough of an environmental hazard that they'll feel the squeeze.No problem for me. Evil has to be like EVIL. Not just your average goon/drugdealer. At least, that is the way I read it. To a certain degree. Truth is subjective, and you are allowed to be evasive. And there is no way to tell if the creature made its save or not. Again to a degree. It is such a staple of the genre that it is expected.  Make Hole? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> Or warped? Doesn't mend warped wood...  Has an escape clause, whereby the object must have been experienced first hand.   Which is just a method to provide further information should the players be at a loss of what to do next. And then the players spend 30 minutes arguing about the validity of the prognosis, as there is after all, a chance for failure. Yes, but I can cope with this... This is just another witness, after all, and is brief, cryptic or repetitive as it is needed to be. Yeah but it is also available as a skill sense motive, which you mentioned, and so is hardly breaking the mold. Just liek a good detective "knowing" when a witness is lying.  Well... sort of. It can be protected against, detected, the scryer can be revealed, I don't see it radically changing anything in the way ordinary people live, or how nobles live their lives. At best it is good information, at worst, misinformation.Well, to a certain degree... There is that chance of failure (causing discussion amongst the players again...) And it is not necessarily going to be understood in time to do any good... But it could have an affect, if you wanted it to. If you have the time. And none of the above spells are really above and beyond what we see in Legend, myth, folklore. Oracles, Scrying, knowing things about people / places / objects.And here is my beef. I dislike it because it changes too much. It is too cheap, available for many. It makes some stories utterly rediculous. It premotes metagame thinking on scale unlike other spells. It disrupts the game because, all of a sudden lowly priests of a major temple are expected to be raised by the churchScry, buff, teleport works for the bad guys as well... which explains why the PCs are constantly getting raised...There are so many ways to thwart this strategy it isn't funny, and I find it amazing that it is constantly coming up. Sure it works. For a while, against some foes, but not all. It isn't going to work against the general leading an invading army, thats for sure.My players detest using teleport due to the chance of failure. At least one player does. Surprisingly, his characters are the ones that have managed to stay alive. He is such a coward. Or it could be an illusion of a dog barking, and the window was smashed after the fact. Perhaps the window isn't really smashed, it is a permanent illusion...Could be an illusion of a dead body, could be cut after being held, could be the religious trying to fob it of on to some rogue, needn't be a local, they could have scry-buff-teleported in from the darkside of the moonn. So no local knowledge of illegal purchases. Nor registered arcanists. It is the job of the DM to drop hints, obviously, but paranoid players just sit there and go, "This is a set-up..."You end up with such circle arguments from the players during this, that it becomes pointless (although it can be fun to listen into, for a while, but not an entire evening). Magic can do almost anything in the game. Then you just cast raise dead get the stiff back to life, and carry on in the dungeon.As magic is capable of almost anything, it can create demiplanes, slay from a distance, turn solids into gas, cause the blind to see, sow hate amongst friends, ... SO much so, that it becomes boundless. At high levels, "who killed the king" is unanswerable, as the king's enemies are all so powerful in their own right, that the capacity to decieve and delude any investigator are complete. Players, being aware of this, would rather go demon-bashing.So yeah, for a good murder mystery, perhaps I should go play something else <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Anyway, thanks for some ideas, and the input and advice. Even if I stubbornly keep my head shoved into the sand, raving about seeing the dead walk again...</blockquote>

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