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<blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 4506172" data-attributes="member: 1003">This is absolutely correct. And there's no way to fix it without (a) making assumptions about the number of opponents a Magic-User will fight during a given adventuring day (either in a single encounter or greater number of encounters or (b) making Wizards pure at-will (0% Vancian).&nbsp; 4E went half-way to option (b) but mostly just decided to hide the problem by making Magic-Users and Fighters almost indistinguishable mechanically.&nbsp; This way the &quot;number of opponents/day&quot; assumption is built into all classes equally.One of the fundamental differences between 4E and O/1E/2E/3E is on the Martial side of the equation.&nbsp; This effects how Magic-Users feel relative to Fighters.&nbsp; Pre-4E Fighters could not go full Boo-Yah! on their opponents at a time of their choice.&nbsp; Each round of combat had the same damage potential as the previous round, slow but steady.&nbsp; Every Fighter option (call it Feats, Maneuvers, Stunts, what you will) was &quot;at will&quot; in the 4E parlance.&nbsp; Now both Wizards and Fighters are part at-will, part per encounter and part Vancian in the form of their Daily Powers.&nbsp; The Magic-User no longer has anything that sets him apart.&nbsp; I think this is a big part of the change in &quot;feel.&quot;But keep in mind the first restriction above. A Vancian system (even only partial Vancian, like 4E) can only be balanced against a pure at-will character build if you hold the number of opponents/day constant. There's no way around that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Irda Ranger, post: 4506172, member: 1003"] This is absolutely correct. And there's no way to fix it without (a) making assumptions about the number of opponents a Magic-User will fight during a given adventuring day (either in a single encounter or greater number of encounters or (b) making Wizards pure at-will (0% Vancian). 4E went half-way to option (b) but mostly just decided to hide the problem by making Magic-Users and Fighters almost indistinguishable mechanically. This way the "number of opponents/day" assumption is built into all classes equally. One of the fundamental differences between 4E and O/1E/2E/3E is on the Martial side of the equation. This effects how Magic-Users feel [U]relative to Fighters[/U]. Pre-4E Fighters could not go full [I]Boo-Yah![/I] on their opponents at a time of their choice. Each round of combat had the same damage potential as the previous round, slow but steady. Every Fighter option (call it Feats, Maneuvers, Stunts, what you will) was "at will" in the 4E parlance. Now both Wizards and Fighters are part at-will, part per encounter and part Vancian in the form of their Daily Powers. The Magic-User no longer has anything that sets him apart. I think this is a big part of the change in "feel." But keep in mind the first restriction above. A Vancian system (even only partial Vancian, like 4E) can only be balanced against a pure at-will character build if you hold the number of opponents/day constant. There's no way around that. [/QUOTE]

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