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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4506422" data-attributes="member: 7635">This was probably the bigger element of spellcasting vs. martial power that seems to both break and define D&amp;D's class paradigm. The problem, as others have pointed out, is the &quot;15 min workday&quot; or &quot;5 encouters and rest&quot; design 3e seemed to balance around. Right around the time mages and priests become ascendant (9th level) is right around the time they have enough spell slots, disposable/charged items, and magic knick-knacks to no longer cast &quot;conservatively&quot;. I pointed out in a post here that a 3e wizard at 9th level with an 18 Int has 22 spells before magic items. Again, that's 4 spells a combat (or the first four rounds of combat is all spellcasting) with 2 left over if your going by 5 encounters and rest CR/EL system. And since D&amp;D fights in 3e rarely go over 6 rounds of combat, at most the wizard is sitting out 2 rounds (or using disposable items or his crossbow) while the fighter shines doing this thing.What does a fighter get over a wizard? 10 rounds of combat dominance per day. Weeee!Earlier D&amp;D fared slightly better due to lack of wizard bonus spells and harsher craft/item acquisition. It was tempered by fighters have little or no options beyond &quot;roll to hit&quot;Fourth edition did a wonderful job of giving us the most truly &quot;balanced&quot; D&amp;D there is, but almost at the cost of making it too balanced. Perhaps, subconsciously, there is an element of the game that is obsessed with finding the truly powerful elements of the game and exploiting them. Rule Lawyers and Powergamers do it by name-right, but even low-level wizards know sleep is a better spell than magic missile at first level, and thieves outlive their usefulness at name level. Was it right or fair? Probably not. It was the consequence that was pieced together bit-by-bit and refined rather than remodeled. Once 4e introduced a truly ground-up balanced idea of D&amp;D removing all the quirks, inconsistencies, and broken options, D&amp;D played better, but was somewhat foreign and not quite the same.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 4506422, member: 7635"] This was probably the bigger element of spellcasting vs. martial power that seems to both break and define D&D's class paradigm. The problem, as others have pointed out, is the "15 min workday" or "5 encouters and rest" design 3e seemed to balance around. Right around the time mages and priests become ascendant (9th level) is right around the time they have enough spell slots, disposable/charged items, and magic knick-knacks to no longer cast "conservatively". I pointed out in a post here that a 3e wizard at 9th level with an 18 Int has 22 spells before magic items. Again, that's 4 spells a combat (or the first four rounds of combat is all spellcasting) with 2 left over if your going by 5 encounters and rest CR/EL system. And since D&D fights in 3e rarely go over 6 rounds of combat, at most the wizard is sitting out 2 rounds (or using disposable items or his crossbow) while the fighter shines doing this thing. What does a fighter get over a wizard? 10 rounds of combat dominance per day. Weeee! Earlier D&D fared slightly better due to lack of wizard bonus spells and harsher craft/item acquisition. It was tempered by fighters have little or no options beyond "roll to hit" Fourth edition did a wonderful job of giving us the most truly "balanced" D&D there is, but almost at the cost of making it too balanced. Perhaps, subconsciously, there is an element of the game that is obsessed with finding the truly powerful elements of the game and exploiting them. Rule Lawyers and Powergamers do it by name-right, but even low-level wizards know sleep is a better spell than magic missile at first level, and thieves outlive their usefulness at name level. Was it right or fair? Probably not. It was the consequence that was pieced together bit-by-bit and refined rather than remodeled. Once 4e introduced a truly ground-up balanced idea of D&D removing all the quirks, inconsistencies, and broken options, D&D played better, but was somewhat foreign and not quite the same. [/QUOTE]

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