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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4506791" data-attributes="member: 7635">My problem was the the imbalance went the life of the campaign, and there was a relatively small window (sweet spot) where all classes were equal. At low levels (1st-4th), fighters and clerics dominated due to high hp and armor training. At middle levels (5-8th) most the classes even out. Thieves have a a good chance of succeeding in their skills and have some hp. Clerics get 3rd level magic (many of the major status ailments) Fighters are getting their second attack, and wizards are getting fireball, fly, and dispel magic. At name level (9-12th) mages and clerics become ascendant. Save or dies and big-boom magic begin to marginalize fighters in combat (beyond &quot;distracting them for a few round&quot;) and thieves begin to max out their thief skills (and lose their edge in combat)At high level (13th-18th) mages rule, clerics enjoy runner-up status, rogues are obsolete in combat and nearly so out of combat (due to magic items and potent rogue-replacing spells) and fighters mostly have taken the rule of pinata while the wizard and/or priest ends the fight.Epic levels (19th+) Just continues the trend, depending on what epic rules you're using. Now, each edition tweaked those assumptions a bit, but the general idea remains true, until 4e's power/balance system, magic typically won the arms race and martial characters fell behind in usefulness.The thing is, 4e's method of balancing everything was to make everything the same. While that's simple and elegant, it also feels forced considering D&amp;D's history. and to some wholely unsatisfying. One wonders if there is a &quot;Holy Grail&quot; which allows wizards to be powerful and fighters relevant across all levels.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 4506791, member: 7635"] My problem was the the imbalance went the life of the campaign, and there was a relatively small window (sweet spot) where all classes were equal. At low levels (1st-4th), fighters and clerics dominated due to high hp and armor training. At middle levels (5-8th) most the classes even out. Thieves have a a good chance of succeeding in their skills and have some hp. Clerics get 3rd level magic (many of the major status ailments) Fighters are getting their second attack, and wizards are getting fireball, fly, and dispel magic. At name level (9-12th) mages and clerics become ascendant. Save or dies and big-boom magic begin to marginalize fighters in combat (beyond "distracting them for a few round") and thieves begin to max out their thief skills (and lose their edge in combat) At high level (13th-18th) mages rule, clerics enjoy runner-up status, rogues are obsolete in combat and nearly so out of combat (due to magic items and potent rogue-replacing spells) and fighters mostly have taken the rule of pinata while the wizard and/or priest ends the fight. Epic levels (19th+) Just continues the trend, depending on what epic rules you're using. Now, each edition tweaked those assumptions a bit, but the general idea remains true, until 4e's power/balance system, magic typically won the arms race and martial characters fell behind in usefulness. The thing is, 4e's method of balancing everything was to make everything the same. While that's simple and elegant, it also feels forced considering D&D's history. and to some wholely unsatisfying. One wonders if there is a "Holy Grail" which allows wizards to be powerful and fighters relevant across all levels. [/QUOTE]

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