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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4506895" data-attributes="member: 7635">Well...a.) Again, I'm purposefully ignoring clever play, playing in character, etc. because I can do that with a potato farmer, a deity, or anything else I want.b.) Combat is a GREAT example, but not the only one. Lets look at 3.5's skill system, since earlier D&amp;D had a less-defined skill system. Movement skills (Climb/Jump/Swim) These quickly get replaced by magic (be it Slippers of Spider Climbing or the Fly spell.Stealth Skills (Hide/Move Silently) are similarly rendered useless by invisibility spells. Social Skills (Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate) can be at best replicated via charm magic, at worst boosted with magic.Knowledge Skills can be out shined with Divination.Similarly, Detection Skills (Search, Spot, Listen) can be rendered inert by magic. And lets not even get into Knock/Open Lock, Comp Language/Decipher Script, or Find the Path/SurvivalCouple this with the fact fighters have little in the way of skills outside of combat (horsemanship, movement skills, and intimidate?) and magic can quickly replace any &quot;MUST MAKE&quot; skill check (not to mention the fact a caster can swap out his artillery magic for divination if the adventure calls for it)(and that's also not even considering things like Scrolls of Detect Secret Doors, Wands of Knock, or Potions of Invisibility which are dirt-cheap to make)So if magic can dominate IN combat, and it can dominate OUT OF combat, doesn't that make magic a little too good at making fighters and rogues obsolete in their niche categories?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 4506895, member: 7635"] Well... a.) Again, I'm purposefully ignoring clever play, playing in character, etc. because I can do that with a potato farmer, a deity, or anything else I want. b.) Combat is a GREAT example, but not the only one. Lets look at 3.5's skill system, since earlier D&D had a less-defined skill system. Movement skills (Climb/Jump/Swim) These quickly get replaced by magic (be it Slippers of Spider Climbing or the Fly spell. Stealth Skills (Hide/Move Silently) are similarly rendered useless by invisibility spells. Social Skills (Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate) can be at best replicated via charm magic, at worst boosted with magic. Knowledge Skills can be out shined with Divination. Similarly, Detection Skills (Search, Spot, Listen) can be rendered inert by magic. And lets not even get into Knock/Open Lock, Comp Language/Decipher Script, or Find the Path/Survival Couple this with the fact fighters have little in the way of skills outside of combat (horsemanship, movement skills, and intimidate?) and magic can quickly replace any "MUST MAKE" skill check (not to mention the fact a caster can swap out his artillery magic for divination if the adventure calls for it) (and that's also not even considering things like Scrolls of Detect Secret Doors, Wands of Knock, or Potions of Invisibility which are dirt-cheap to make) So if magic can dominate IN combat, and it can dominate OUT OF combat, doesn't that make magic a little too good at making fighters and rogues obsolete in their niche categories? [/QUOTE]

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