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<blockquote data-quote="Deadboy" data-source="post: 5803460" data-attributes="member: 61779">Actually, I'd argue that it's WotC that's the tumor on D&amp;D.They took this game that was an ancient dinosaur and modernized it&nbsp; without understanding anything about the checks and balances within the&nbsp; system, removing all the downsides of spellcasting while leaving all its&nbsp; power. They also proceeded to remove everything that was good about the&nbsp; martial classes without giving them anything decent to make up for it.&nbsp; They also decided to whore out the system to any company that wanted to&nbsp; take a crack at it.Then, when their corporate overlords, Hasbro, said that they needed to&nbsp; make more money, they dumped that system and created a new one that they&nbsp; felt would match up to a new digitalization initiative they felt would&nbsp; propel them to that mythical $100 million per year mark - then totally&nbsp; bungled the digital end while badly underestimating just how much of its&nbsp; audience feared change and just wanted more of the same thing they had&nbsp; been buying for years. It wouldn't matter if 4e was the greatest RPG&nbsp; ever designed (it wasn't, though it was really good for certain&nbsp; playstyles, like my own), it wasn't going to catch on with certain segments of the&nbsp; audience just by being different. Plus the earlier whoring of the system&nbsp; meant that WotC created its own competition.So now that blows up in WotC's face as Hasbro sees another company&nbsp; making money off what it likely sees as its Intellectual Property, which&nbsp; Hasbro is very defensive of, so WotC tries to appease them with the&nbsp; idea of an uber-edition that will bring back all the players using the&nbsp; game but not buying new product.Of course, the two very different games WotC has created apart from the&nbsp; original AD&amp;D has essentially created three (or maybe even more)&nbsp; very different, very fractured audiences. Good luck on this new&nbsp; initiative succeeding, considering each group wants very different&nbsp; things and the older groups seem to begrudge anything from the newer&nbsp; game(s) even showing up in the new main rulebook at all.So yeah, it's not the Grognards or 4e that's killing D&amp;D, its WotC&nbsp; continuing to not understand its audience(s) or its own mistakes, and&nbsp; continuing to target segments of its audience or its old audiences rather than worrying about&nbsp; bringing in new audiences. It's also fairly clear that niche products should be owned by niche companies, not corporations. But its too late for D&amp;D now, Hasbro's pattern is to shelve and hang onto properties, not sell them.And BTW, there's no rampant anti-groggism, it's just edition warring.&nbsp; Everyone is feeling attacked right now because everyone IS being&nbsp; attacked right now... I think fans of every system have seen someone on&nbsp; some posting board come in and take a big dump all over their system of&nbsp; choice. Just the way it is right now, unfortunately.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Deadboy, post: 5803460, member: 61779"] Actually, I'd argue that it's WotC that's the tumor on D&D. They took this game that was an ancient dinosaur and modernized it without understanding anything about the checks and balances within the system, removing all the downsides of spellcasting while leaving all its power. They also proceeded to remove everything that was good about the martial classes without giving them anything decent to make up for it. They also decided to whore out the system to any company that wanted to take a crack at it. Then, when their corporate overlords, Hasbro, said that they needed to make more money, they dumped that system and created a new one that they felt would match up to a new digitalization initiative they felt would propel them to that mythical $100 million per year mark - then totally bungled the digital end while badly underestimating just how much of its audience feared change and just wanted more of the same thing they had been buying for years. It wouldn't matter if 4e was the greatest RPG ever designed (it wasn't, though it was really good for certain playstyles, like my own), it wasn't going to catch on with certain segments of the audience just by being different. Plus the earlier whoring of the system meant that WotC created its own competition. So now that blows up in WotC's face as Hasbro sees another company making money off what it likely sees as its Intellectual Property, which Hasbro is very defensive of, so WotC tries to appease them with the idea of an uber-edition that will bring back all the players using the game but not buying new product. Of course, the two very different games WotC has created apart from the original AD&D has essentially created three (or maybe even more) very different, very fractured audiences. Good luck on this new initiative succeeding, considering each group wants very different things and the older groups seem to begrudge anything from the newer game(s) even showing up in the new main rulebook at all. So yeah, it's not the Grognards or 4e that's killing D&D, its WotC continuing to not understand its audience(s) or its own mistakes, and continuing to target segments of its audience or its old audiences rather than worrying about bringing in new audiences. It's also fairly clear that niche products should be owned by niche companies, not corporations. But its too late for D&D now, Hasbro's pattern is to shelve and hang onto properties, not sell them. And BTW, there's no rampant anti-groggism, it's just edition warring. Everyone is feeling attacked right now because everyone IS being attacked right now... I think fans of every system have seen someone on some posting board come in and take a big dump all over their system of choice. Just the way it is right now, unfortunately. [/QUOTE]

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