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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 4514769" data-attributes="member: 11300">There are two things at play here I'd like to add to the point stat thing.1) There has been a shift away from the scores and a reliance on the modifiers and I'm not too sure that's a good thing.2) The game has progressed to the point (in 4E particularly) where not having your primary stat at the maximum possible is inefficiently foolish.There are a few other things as well but let's look at these first.1) Sometimes I think the modifier can be misleading. Let's compare for example a jump/athletics check (STR) and a heal check (WIS). Let's compare the jumper with a +5 STR modifier and a healer with +5 WIS modifier. The jumper is going to get much more benefit out of having high strength than a healer with high wisdom. Likewise but in reverse, extensive training will obviously assist a jumper but nowhere near as much as extensive training will assist a healer. However, in 3e the weight most certainly goes with training(ranks) where as with 4e, the overwhelming weight goes with level then training and attribute. I think this just ends up getting figures all wrong.A possible fix. Let's say there are the following levels of expertise in a particular skill:- Unfamiliarity- Familiarity- Proficiency- Expertise- Specialization- MasteryLet's also say that for some skills, we are not just interested in the modifier (mod) but multiples of that modifier (2mod, 3mod, maybe even 4mod, and then also 1mod2 for half the modifier if appropriate).Let's now see how we can mirror the flavour of the skills with the mechanics above and get a total modifier for each of these things.With Jump/Athletics, the emphasis should definitely be on the attribute, more so than the training. Let's say it's a 3mod skill. Let's then give the following array for training:- U [NA - assume everybody is at least familiar with jumping]- F [+3]- P [+6]- E [+7]- S [+8]- M [+9]or in shorthand [f3p6e7s8m9].This gives you the following modifiers:- STR 17 and Expert: +16, (+9 and +7)- STR 14 and Specialist: +14 (+6 and +8)- STR 8 and Familiar: +0 (-3 and +3)- STR 22 and Proficient: +22 (+18 and +6)This sits well with previous discussion of modifiers between +0 for a novice and +20 for a paragon. The training factor may need to be tweaked a little but as a rough first run through, I feel like there is plenty of scope here to tailor things nicely.With Healing, training should be the dominant factor. Therefore, I'd say its a 1mod skill with the following training array:- U [-6]- F [+0]- P [+6]- E [+10]- S [+14]- M [+18]or in shorthand [u-6f0p6e10s14m18].This gives you the following modifiers:- WIS 17 and Expert: +13, (+3 and +10)- WIS 14 and Specialist: +16 (+2 and +14)- WIS 8 and Unfamiliar: -7 (-1 and -6)- WIS 22 and Proficient: +12 (+6 and +6)I think this also effects a fair balance.2) I'll edit my thoughts in later - it's getting late.Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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