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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7110744" data-attributes="member: 12731">(Posting without reading any replies) Interestingly enough, I just met (some of) my players for the first time after ending the campaign (Out of the Abyss, levels 1 - 16). They spontaneously offered the feedback that they did not think heavy armor was worth it. The benefits did not compensate for the drawbacks (no stealth, can't focus on speed and dexterity).At the same time, in the opinion it was surprisingly easy to hit most monsters, maybe too easy (=translation: you weren't rewarded enough for doing the minmaxing they've been doing <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />). They suggested heavy armor could probably do with at least a +2 AC bump. And monster AC too. They also offered the feedback that about the only build that feels like a true tank is the barbarian. Most other characters are dropped by two rounds of sustained focus from non-trivial monster encounters. Only the damage resistance of the Barbarian allows you to stand in the middle of the heat with a reasonable chance of not falling in the first two rounds.I tried to argue that a Fighter with plate mail, a shield and the +1 AC fighting style can get AC 21 as soon as he can afford the armor. Their response was that, sure, but then you give up too much on offense (since you can neither use greatweapons, ranged weapons or even dual-wielding). Apparently the 3 point difference isn't enough in their view (to transform their ability to tank from unreliable and not-good-enough into a truly reliable version). Or that AC 18 is "good enough".---In other words, player character light and medium armor could do with a -2 AC nerf. (This from a DMs perspective, so I don't have to tweak all the monster stats). And a -2 attack nerf.So I've come up with the new general idea to base AC on 8, just as with save DCs. This way I can add back full plate (to compensate for one of the lost points) as well as another point of shield.From the context of the armor table in spoilers, after deducting two points across the board, we add:Full Plate AC 16 Stealth Disadvantageand we change Shields to:Light shield +2 ACMedium shield +3 AC Stealth DisadvantageHeavy shield +4 AC -5 Speed, Strength 15 requirement, Stealth DisadvantageThoughts? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Of course, this nerfs the "innocents" to, but at least it does so all across the board - my previous suggestion (above, in spoiler blocks), did not change anything for no-armor classes like wizard and monk. Not saying this is the final iteration... Maybe Mage Armor, for instance, should be kept as 12 + Dex. (Please don't draw any conclusions on anything other what I talk about).This is attractive not only because it encourages "tanks" but also because it generally increases the difficulty level of the game, allowing me to stay closer to the encounter guidelines for the same level of actual challenge.</blockquote>

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