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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9670288" data-attributes="member: 6795602">I'm trying to put this into perspective.Assuming the standard 60% chance of success.A battlemaster using 5 dice on menacing attack will fear an enemy 3 turns per short rest.A reoccuring save spell like Tasha's will disable an enemy around 1.2 turns on average (assuming a 4 round combat).&nbsp; Roughly 3 Uses of Tasha's or 1 upcast level 3 version will disable enemies about the same number of turns. So 1 level 3 slot per short rest would roughly equal the battlemaster manuever control effect.&nbsp; Would be slightly better than it.So that's 3 level 3 slots per day to match the control aspect.&nbsp; Then, we need to match the damage.&nbsp; The battlemaster does something like 5.5+4+3 x2 @ 70% accuracy at level 7 + action surge + 22.5 from Manuevers.&nbsp; The EB+AB does 9.5 x2 @ 60% accuracy.&nbsp; Assuming 8 rounds in a short rest period, that's something like 16 uses of EB+AB required per short rest to match the damage if you do all the math.&nbsp; You can only do 15 due to action economy restrictions in an 8 round day.&nbsp; You also have a big sorcery point limiting factor on top of that.Essentially you need to be able to cast a level 3+ spell once a short rest and use quicken every turn.&nbsp; It gets a bit worse at level 8 since the battlemaster gets an ASI which increases his damage which will increase the number of EB's you need.&nbsp; But the thing is, the number of quickens required tends to increase and increase.&nbsp; GWM keeps adding damage, Action Surge adds more damage as your damage increases, bigger/more manuever dice keep adding damage.&nbsp; Rerolling Misses adds accuracy which adds DPR.&nbsp; Etc. I don't think you can actually equal the battlemasters damage + control combination until you get something like foresight or your 4th EB beam since it comes before the FIghters 4th attack.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 9670288, member: 6795602"] I'm trying to put this into perspective. Assuming the standard 60% chance of success. A battlemaster using 5 dice on menacing attack will fear an enemy 3 turns per short rest. A reoccuring save spell like Tasha's will disable an enemy around 1.2 turns on average (assuming a 4 round combat). Roughly 3 Uses of Tasha's or 1 upcast level 3 version will disable enemies about the same number of turns. So 1 level 3 slot per short rest would roughly equal the battlemaster manuever control effect. Would be slightly better than it. So that's 3 level 3 slots per day to match the control aspect. Then, we need to match the damage. The battlemaster does something like 5.5+4+3 x2 @ 70% accuracy at level 7 + action surge + 22.5 from Manuevers. The EB+AB does 9.5 x2 @ 60% accuracy. Assuming 8 rounds in a short rest period, that's something like 16 uses of EB+AB required per short rest to match the damage if you do all the math. You can only do 15 due to action economy restrictions in an 8 round day. You also have a big sorcery point limiting factor on top of that. Essentially you need to be able to cast a level 3+ spell once a short rest and use quicken every turn. It gets a bit worse at level 8 since the battlemaster gets an ASI which increases his damage which will increase the number of EB's you need. But the thing is, the number of quickens required tends to increase and increase. GWM keeps adding damage, Action Surge adds more damage as your damage increases, bigger/more manuever dice keep adding damage. Rerolling Misses adds accuracy which adds DPR. Etc. I don't think you can actually equal the battlemasters damage + control combination until you get something like foresight or your 4th EB beam since it comes before the FIghters 4th attack. [/QUOTE]

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