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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9671746" data-attributes="member: 6795602">Okay.  I don't think it's as good of control at that point.  Though if you are willing to use some sorcery points for quicken to help ensure enemies get pushed back into the web if escaped (or maybe other nearby ones that weren't in web initially) as you suggest below.  I agree doing that would close the gap and it's something I would really want to do in actual play given the opportunity despite potentially a quicken hex EB or hex EB reroll that I assumed in my damage calculations for the non-hex version of each (hex and web being mutually exclusive).In any event, having 2 level 3 slots instead of 2 level 2 slots is only 2 more sorcery points.  If one was to use the 2 level 3 slots as fireball instead then that's 4 less sorcery points and 2 less EB actions than I used.  I think you were estimating 6 here, but the net gain is just 2.I mean, i seriously question the value of attacking a controlled enemy that can do nothing meaningful other than attempt to free itself from your web and may not even succeed at that.  I don't think the assumption that you target the webbed creature is a good one.  Seems to me your attacks would be better used on an enemy currently actually threatening your allies.So yea, we could maximize white room dpr with the assumption that we utilize web for advantage, but I don't think we should be doing that as I think it would be increasing DPR at the expense of priority targeting effectiveness.I really like this option alot.    Though I'll note for our damage comparison, using your sorcery points while web is up means its no hex EB.  So we would need to use the non-hex damage for these EB's, which likely means some of the damage i listed needs taken away.  Though if we can use this option enough, we might even need 1 less cast of web to match the control, meaning potentially a few extra sorcery points and another use of hex as well (hex was concentration restricted not sorcery point or action economy restricted at this level).Same as above when it came to you attacking the webbed creature.  Ideally your allies should be attacking the non-webbed creatures before worrying about the webbed ones.Okay, but for it to be effective you really need 2+ melee only enemies within 20ft of each other.  That's alot more restrictive than finding a single melee only enemy that menacing requires.  Also you may be faced with the dilemma of webbing 2 lesser creatures or webbing 1 stronger creature.  Or Web may only be able to target target 1 strong and 1 weaker enemy.  Menacing can always target the most desirable melee only enemy without losing effectiveness.  So while we can mostly count turns of control, it's still worth noting that not all turns are necessarily equal.Sure.  Though I think we need to fully validate the level 11 breakpoint.  Battlemasters 3rd attack does 4 damage more at +2 attack compared to EB at level 11.  He's increased superiority dice size.  He's increased action surges damage.  I'm not sure the comparison is going to be as clear cut for the EB Sorc even at that point.Other random thoughts.One thing I like about the sorlock, is he can use Tasha's Laughter or similar and control ranged enemies as well.  Battlemasters get no maneuvers that particularly control them (menacing for causing them disadvantage is the best he's got).</blockquote>

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