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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 7564145" data-attributes="member: 2525">Here are the ranges of the 15 Wizard attack cantrips:60 Feet: 55 feet or touch: 5120 Feet: 230 feet: 115 feet: 1So about half of them (7) have a range the same or shorter than the short range of a Javelin; 5 have a range double that of the short range of a Javelin but shorter than the long range of a Javelin, two have a range equal to the long range of the Javelin. None have a range longer than the long range of a Javelin (which I think is no coincidence). I think it's fair to characterize the &quot;average&quot; wizard as not having an attack cantrip which has a range which extends beyond 60 feet.This is a meaningful trade off that you and some others continue to ignore. You literally cannot hit some targets that the warrior can hit with a Javelin with the vast majority of Wizard cantrips.The situations where the average wizard has the advantage is when the target happens to be at a range of 35-60 feet (the Javelin thrower will have disadvantage where the wizard will not).The situations where the average warrior has the advantage is when the target happens to be at a range of 5-30 feet (they will likely do more damage), OR a range of 65-120 feet (they can still hit the target while the wizard cannot). Nobody is getting a free pass. The wizard is not better with their attack cantrips than the warrior with their javelin in a majority of those ranged situations. One can argue they're about equal, but frankly I'd rather be the warrior than the wizard with just attack cantrips in most of these scenarios since that pocket of 35-60 feet is a pretty narrow window for the wizard and they're completely useless with those attack cantrips beyond 60' unless they happen to have one of the only two cantrips with a longer range.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 7564145, member: 2525"] Here are the ranges of the 15 Wizard attack cantrips: 60 Feet: 5 5 feet or touch: 5 120 Feet: 2 30 feet: 1 15 feet: 1 So about half of them (7) have a range the same or shorter than the short range of a Javelin; 5 have a range double that of the short range of a Javelin but shorter than the long range of a Javelin, two have a range equal to the long range of the Javelin. None have a range longer than the long range of a Javelin (which I think is no coincidence). I think it's fair to characterize the "average" wizard as not having an attack cantrip which has a range which extends beyond 60 feet. This is a meaningful trade off that you and some others continue to ignore. You literally cannot hit some targets that the warrior can hit with a Javelin with the vast majority of Wizard cantrips. The situations where the average wizard has the advantage is when the target happens to be at a range of 35-60 feet (the Javelin thrower will have disadvantage where the wizard will not). The situations where the average warrior has the advantage is when the target happens to be at a range of 5-30 feet (they will likely do more damage), OR a range of 65-120 feet (they can still hit the target while the wizard cannot). Nobody is getting a free pass. The wizard is not better with their attack cantrips than the warrior with their javelin in a majority of those ranged situations. One can argue they're about equal, but frankly I'd rather be the warrior than the wizard with just attack cantrips in most of these scenarios since that pocket of 35-60 feet is a pretty narrow window for the wizard and they're completely useless with those attack cantrips beyond 60' unless they happen to have one of the only two cantrips with a longer range. [/QUOTE]

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