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<blockquote data-quote="aboyd" data-source="post: 4473174" data-attributes="member: 44797">So let me see if I understand.With a haversack, I use the Quick Draw feat to pull out alchemist fire flasks, which NORMALLY lets me pull 'em out at full BAB, but with the haversack limits me because while I can draw as a free action, I have to wait for the retrieval (which I would think would be implied by a draw, but whatever).&nbsp; End result, even&nbsp; if I have the Quick Draw, the haversack prevents me from drawing at full BAB.However, with a normal backpack/pouch/other storage device, I use Quick Draw to draw at full BAB and it works?&nbsp; Because they don't have a &quot;retrieval&quot; time?If normal storage does have a retrieval time, then Quick Draw is a failure of a feat, as it specifically says you can get full BAB for thrown weapons, yet anything apparently defeats it.If normal storage does not have a retrieval time, then the haversack is a failure of a magic item, as its supposed advantage over normal packs is in fact a disadvantage.Where in the rules does it specify that draw and retrieval are separate, anyway?&nbsp; I want to read that for myself.&nbsp; Is it like a stacking rule?&nbsp; How do they stack?EDIT: Hmm.&nbsp; I see it.&nbsp; Page 141 of Players Handbook.&nbsp; The problem with this is that a flask is in a weird space of being a weapon you draw and being a stored item.&nbsp; Apparently it comes down to context -- if the storage device lends itself to Quick Draw, then Quick Draw applies.&nbsp; If not, then it's a rummaging-in-the-pack retrieval issue.&nbsp; I guess in such a case, the only good option for a halfling thrower is to buy the bandolier.&nbsp; At least there is SOME option that works.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="aboyd, post: 4473174, member: 44797"] So let me see if I understand. With a haversack, I use the Quick Draw feat to pull out alchemist fire flasks, which NORMALLY lets me pull 'em out at full BAB, but with the haversack limits me because while I can draw as a free action, I have to wait for the retrieval (which I would think would be implied by a draw, but whatever). End result, even if I have the Quick Draw, the haversack prevents me from drawing at full BAB. However, with a normal backpack/pouch/other storage device, I use Quick Draw to draw at full BAB and it works? Because they don't have a "retrieval" time? If normal storage does have a retrieval time, then Quick Draw is a failure of a feat, as it specifically says you can get full BAB for thrown weapons, yet anything apparently defeats it. If normal storage does not have a retrieval time, then the haversack is a failure of a magic item, as its supposed advantage over normal packs is in fact a disadvantage. Where in the rules does it specify that draw and retrieval are separate, anyway? I want to read that for myself. Is it like a stacking rule? How do they stack? EDIT: Hmm. I see it. Page 141 of Players Handbook. The [i]problem[/i] with this is that a flask is in a weird space of being a weapon you draw and being a stored item. Apparently it comes down to context -- if the storage device lends itself to Quick Draw, then Quick Draw applies. If not, then it's a rummaging-in-the-pack retrieval issue. I guess in such a case, the only good option for a halfling thrower is to buy the bandolier. At least there is SOME option that works. [/QUOTE]

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