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Message: <blockquote data-quote="OB1" data-source="post: 7519387" data-attributes="member: 6796241">[MENTION=6775031]Saelorn[/MENTION], let me start by saying that I understand that this is a pet peeve of yours, but it really got me thinking about the reality of the situation and I just wanted to bring some hard data to it.  I get the fact that you don't like that a PC can encounter threats that they may not be able to overcome on their own, but for me, it's an incredible feature of 5e, not a bug.  But beyond that, the actual issue of impossible saves isn't as large as you seem to imply.First of all, every character, by level 20, can achieve a minimum of +2 in all of their saves via their ASI choices, which means that that any PC can ensure they have a chance to make a saving throw up to DC22.  Additionally, any PC may choose to be a fighter, and thereby achieve a minimum of +3 to all of their saves, but for the purposes of this argument, let's use the DC22 baseline, since it doesn't restrict you to a specific class (and since any PC choosing a Paladin can achieve a min of +8 in every save).The rules state that a CR higher than character level could be deadly to a character as they may not have the ability to harm the creature or defend themselves from it, so creatures above CR20 are purposefully outside of bounded accuracy and meant to be a higher challenge.  This also applies to lower level characters facing higher CR threats.  The risk of taking those on is that you might not be able to resist their attacks or abilities.So, looking at the 7 CR20 creatures published so far, we see the following abilities requiring DC23 or above saves.Creature - Ability - DC - ResultOgremoch - Stomp - 23 Dex - Fall ProneLeviathan - Tidal Wave - 24 Str - 27 Damage, Unable to move via swimmingThere is also a single CR18 creature with a save DC of 23 or higherYan-C-Bin - Thundercrack - 24 Con - 31 Damage, Deafened for 1 minuteAnd that's it.  Hundreds of monsters and only 3 abilities that a PC wouldn't have a chance against, and none of those abilities are so dangerous that an appropriate level PC couldn't absorb the effect without severe consequence.  Perhaps you could argue that these three effects are "mistakes", but it's not like they made the mistake with an ability that could instantly kill or permanently disable a PC without a chance save against it.  And again, any player can choose to play a Paladin and be able to have a chance against every monster ability published by WOTC.</blockquote>

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