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Ranger Beast Master: errata will add new features to your animal companion!
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7521278" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>I strongly disagree. </p><p></p><p>Not making sure that your level 17 hero always stands a chance of success (even if she needs to roll 20 to pull it off) feels like lazy, sloppy design. </p><p></p><p>Why ask a player to make a roll that is literally impossible?</p><p></p><p>Making sure the "bad" saves of characters always stay <em>just</em> ahead of the big bads save DCs, even by a little, is the elegant and obvious thing to do - and WotC failed or just didn't care.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I suspect they never even once statted up something like Graz'zt the Demon Prince. If they had, they would have seen instantly that a level 19 character (five levels below CR 24) absolutely needs a minimum of +3 on his worst saves, assuming baseline stats. </p><p></p><p>Remember, even his lowest and weakest spell still has the same DC of 23.</p><p></p><p>That is, I'm cool with the idea that a character can intentionally ignore a glaring weakness, to minmax a strength elsewhere. A character with a stat below 10; sure, I can accept that such a character would have to roll "21" on the most difficult rolls of the entire campaign. </p><p></p><p>But saves don't work that way in 5E. It is entirely unreasonable to mitigate all your bad saves. </p><p></p><p><strong>You will have at least one save below +3 in 5th edition regardless of level.</strong></p><p></p><p>It follows that good design makes sure no monster can trigger a DC 23 saving throw, at least not by default. (Again, if the monster started out in the evil temple of doom or simply cast a buff on himself, that would not be the default and so I wouldn't object).</p><p></p><p>But the current state, where every hero (short of a Paladin or Monty Haul character) always have at least one save where success is impossible is incredibly grating. Such bad design hurts my head. </p><p></p><p>Especially since solutions come easily and naturally. For example: use your proficiency bonus. Rolling "20" is always a success. See how easy it is?</p><p></p><p>Bottom line: there is no good reason why the current system wasn't fixed already before publication. </p><p></p><p>It probably wasn't fixed simply because WotC did not put enough care into high level issues. And since very few players ever experience it even once, they let this ugly flaw pass.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7521278, member: 12731"] I strongly disagree. Not making sure that your level 17 hero always stands a chance of success (even if she needs to roll 20 to pull it off) feels like lazy, sloppy design. Why ask a player to make a roll that is literally impossible? Making sure the "bad" saves of characters always stay [I]just[/I] ahead of the big bads save DCs, even by a little, is the elegant and obvious thing to do - and WotC failed or just didn't care. Personally, I suspect they never even once statted up something like Graz'zt the Demon Prince. If they had, they would have seen instantly that a level 19 character (five levels below CR 24) absolutely needs a minimum of +3 on his worst saves, assuming baseline stats. Remember, even his lowest and weakest spell still has the same DC of 23. That is, I'm cool with the idea that a character can intentionally ignore a glaring weakness, to minmax a strength elsewhere. A character with a stat below 10; sure, I can accept that such a character would have to roll "21" on the most difficult rolls of the entire campaign. But saves don't work that way in 5E. It is entirely unreasonable to mitigate all your bad saves. [B]You will have at least one save below +3 in 5th edition regardless of level.[/B] It follows that good design makes sure no monster can trigger a DC 23 saving throw, at least not by default. (Again, if the monster started out in the evil temple of doom or simply cast a buff on himself, that would not be the default and so I wouldn't object). But the current state, where every hero (short of a Paladin or Monty Haul character) always have at least one save where success is impossible is incredibly grating. Such bad design hurts my head. Especially since solutions come easily and naturally. For example: use your proficiency bonus. Rolling "20" is always a success. See how easy it is? Bottom line: there is no good reason why the current system wasn't fixed already before publication. It probably wasn't fixed simply because WotC did not put enough care into high level issues. And since very few players ever experience it even once, they let this ugly flaw pass. [/QUOTE]
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