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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jodyjohnson" data-source="post: 6795766" data-attributes="member: 5590">Let's begin at the end; with the goal: bring the class up to the level of the paladin.So what makes the Paladin so much better?Paladin 1:  Divine Sense as a cantrip (for practical purposes - it is an at-will ability taking an action)Lay on Hands as a pseudo-cantrip/pseudo-spell with a daily pool - not really a daily power or an at-will power.  It is a very precise power.Ranger 1:  The Ranger gets a Language (possibly) and Advantage on 2 very specific types of checks against a small subset of enemies.  Also gets some bonuses to Wis and Int checks in certain types of terrain (especially perception).Both get spells and a Fighting style at 2nd, Extra Attack at 5th, and the same spell progression if we ignore Divine Sense and Lay on Hands as spell-like.  Well except for the Paladin gets the whole list and the Ranger gets Spells Known.  So the Ranger spell list is much more like a powers list - kind of like Battle Master maneuvers - short list, small number of uses.  Plus toss in the bonus prepared spells from Oath.The second standout ability of the Paladin is trading spell slots for melee damage.  This is a no-action at-will (Cantrip number 2).  The Hunter can do it with Hunter's Mark (more efficiently but at the cost of concentration) but the Paladin's usage is very precise - can be saved for crits or when the situation is optimal (not smiting the nearly dead).  It is also front-loaded.  Giving Vengeance paladin's Hunter's Mark is just salt in the wound.So if my goal were to balance Ranger and Paladin I'd add the Cantrip abilities (Divine Sense and Divine Smite) and add some 'domain' spells known for free (like the new Ranger subclass in UA).  Then give them  Vow of Enmity rewritten.1st.  Add Divine Sense detection ability to Favored Enemy - it works versus your favored enemy like the Paladin's works versus Celestials, Fiends, and Undead.  Detect Favored Enemy within 60' as an action (this would also give the 3rd level Primeval Awareness some utility.  Primeval Awareness combined with a Divine Sense ability to locate would be huge.2nd.  Nature's Enmity - vow of enmity refreshing on a short rest (advantage on attacks - your buff to Animal Companions would do this once per turn).Nature's Smite - burn a spell for 1d8 bonus damage ranged or melee, +1d8 to a favored enemy.  Divine Smite is melee only and we still need to account for the bonuses from the Hunter subclass and possibly Hunter's Mark.I'm not going to worry about Lay on Hands because Range attacks and Stealth/Perception abilities are at-will damage mitigation abilities.  Hiding, Range, and Surprise can negate damage.But my preference would be to knock Paladin down a peg, because trying to bring all the d10/d12 classes up to Paladin levels is too much when I could modify Paladin down to mortal levels.  And the Paladin's damage spikes are really dependent on encounters/day and the campaigns playstyle.  So I'm not saying that Paladin's are over-powered at all tables.</blockquote>

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