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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xeviat" data-source="post: 6889608" data-attributes="member: 57494">The combat style change was actually something I wrestled with for a while. Even with the change, I think the fighter is still the best at fighting. Without combat style at first level, the Paladin and Ranger kind of fall behind the Fighter, and for what? A level that's over in a session? Here's what they have at first level (only noting where they differ):Fighter: Up to Heavy Armor Proficiency, Fighting Style, Second Wind (Avg +6 HP per short rest, or about +18 over the day).Paladin: Up to Heavy Armor Proficiency, Divine Sense (ribbon), Lay on Hands (+5 HP to self or others per day, or can neutralize 1 disease or poison per day).Ranger (by the book): Up to Medium Armor Proficiency (with 14 Dex, equal AC if they want a stealth penalty, or -1 AC if they want to go stealth penalty free), 1 extra skill (I'd say that balances against the heavy armor prof), Favored Enemy (two free languages, advantage on some checks against favored enemy; nearly a ribbon), Natural Explorer (some nice bonuses).So their Armor proficiencies are almost equal; Ranger potentially has a penalty here, or at the very least a Str ranger has to focus on a little more stats (but that comes with its own benefits).Fighter clearly gets more HP for themselves with second wind than Lay on Hands allows for, but Lay on Hands allows for some other effects and works on others; I'd say they're mostly balanced? Even though it's in a different Pillar of the game, I'd say Natural Explorer balances against these as well; it's mostly an exploration bonus, instead of a combat bonus, but it's a pretty big exploration bonus if the DM is nice and starts you out in your favored terrain and keeps you there for a while.Then we have the last trio of abilities: Fighting Style vs. Divine Sense vs. Favored Enemy. These don't compare at all. Divine Sense is entirely non-combat, and only applies to the social pillar and maybe the exploration pillar. Likewise, Favored Enemy is non-combat.When level 2 comes around, the paladin gets Fighting Style, Spellcasting, and Smite (which I consider a bonus spell known; I still think it should be limited to once per round and maybe cost a bonus action, but that's just me). At 2nd level, the Ranger gets Fighting style and Spellcasting. The fighter gets Action Surge, which I'm willing to go out on a limb and say is balanced against the spellcasting. The Fighting Styles are just gravy at this point.Especially since Fighting Styles don't stack (I think they should, but I also think none should work with each other; Defensive, I'm looking at you), there's less point to them not getting them at 1st level.What the Fighter really needs is a ribbon ability at 1st level. I've always thought that the Fighter should get some kind of social pillar ability representing how they're the "normal" people, and people tend to trust the "normal" person more than others. Rogues are thieves, Barbarians are barbarians, Wizards are mysterious, Clerics have agendas ... but you can relate to fighters. Warriors are often well respected in many cultures. But it would have to be something that would apply to all fighters. Still, I think they need some fluff, especially when you compare level 2 Fighters, Paladins, and Rangers.I'll check out your Ranger alt!</blockquote>

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