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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6665984" data-attributes="member: 92511">Well, they need Survival, Stealth, and Nature Lore...at the very least, as a given. The rest just seemed like good ideas/flavorful. The other thing is the 5e format. There are only so many skills a PC gets to choose at character creation. I didn't want them getting the same number of as the rogue...since that's the rogues thing. Though their "Expertise" only allows a choice of any two + two more at 6th. And get 4 off of a list of 11 [!] for their skill choices. More than any other class by far. Fighters get 2 from a list of 9. Paladins get 2 from a list of 6.Somewhere in the midst of all that, giving the ranger 3 from the list of 6 and, at least, let's say I knock the WE skills back to 3 (as I currently have 5) to define their "Wilderness Expertise" and make it different from the Rogue's Expertise seems fair.That's 8 starting skills. Most of which are dictated by the class, add proficiency with them all of the time and double it only when in your preferred terrain type(s)..not OP'd...to me.The Rogue gets 6 starting skills, 8 at level 6, as well. But1) from a much wider variety to choose form2) 2 (and then 4 at 6th level) of which can be anything they want...and 3) their proficiency is always doubled with those 2 (4) skills.The ranger has [more than half] their skills chosen FOR them. It is baked into the flavor and assumptions of the class...it kind of has to be, in my view...or they're not rangers. They're just another variety of rogue.I could knock the default skills back to the 3 mentioned above...let them choose 4 from a larger list...that gives them 7...and they never add more so only "out do" rogues as far as number of skills until the rogue's level 6. But the ranger will never outdo them for skills that get any -let alone double- bonus.Would that make it less excessive to you?Does that make sense or am I kind of overthinking/over-complicating this?</blockquote>

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