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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6377277" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> Actual play? I fear that your experience with "actual play" and mine are separated by a very wide margin...</p><p></p><p> Wilderness survival comes up ALL the time. As in constantly. As in if the PC's aren't in a city or a dungeon/ruin, they're going to NEED to survive. As for the higher level stuff...maybe in your campaigns, but in mine, not so much. Magic can make a large difference in survivability...if the MU's happen to actually have spells for it. Using Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion is great and all...but it's also a 7th level spell (of which a wizard needs to be at least 13th level)...which any wizard will only ever have, at MOST, 2 of at level 20. So, "actual play" has the cards stacked against having all these perfect "survive the wilderness" spells, IME.</p><p></p><p> Flying? Since when did flying make wandering monster encounters disappear? Again, we obviously have differing experiences, but in mine, flying 'all the time' was basically assigning the party to a death sentence at some random point in the future. What do you meet when flying? You mean things like Roc, Dragons, Air Elementals, Cloud Giants, and other things like that. Getting knocked of the flying carpet at 1,000' is generally a bad thing...as is the wizard loosing consciousness because he (and everyone else in the party) just took 60 points of damage from a blue dragon fly-by.</p><p></p><p> Teleport? Reread the spell description. There's always a chance of failure...which can be very, very bad. Using teleport circles? Sounds good...but quite limited. Teleport is nice and quick, but definitely not the end-all be-all of high-level travel.</p><p></p><p> Rogue/Bard Expertise? Rogue, nope (Nature isn't one of their skills). Bard, sure (Bard skills are "Choose three"). However, Nature skill is knowledge only. You can use it to what type of plant you just found is, and if it's berries are poisonous...but you can't use it to find a plant that has edible berries. Meanwhile, the Ranger can do all that the Bard can (even if at a lower Proficiency bonus), but the ranger can also keep his group moving through difficult terrain without hindrance, while tracking the 5 ogres, all the while foraging for food for the whole group for the day. A bard? Well, I guess he can sing a song about how much he wishes he was a ranger at that moment... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p> Moral of the story: Rangers are pretty awesome at surviving in the wilds. If the Bard in the group is "out surviving" the ranger, if your group is flying all over the place without encounters, or if they are teleporting everywhere because the wizard "grabs nail out of one of the crates that just came from the City Across the Sea" and teleports there...well, that's not because of the "bad Ranger class", it's because you have a bad DM.</p><p></p><p>^_^</p><p></p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 6377277, member: 45197"] Hiya Actual play? I fear that your experience with "actual play" and mine are separated by a very wide margin... Wilderness survival comes up ALL the time. As in constantly. As in if the PC's aren't in a city or a dungeon/ruin, they're going to NEED to survive. As for the higher level stuff...maybe in your campaigns, but in mine, not so much. Magic can make a large difference in survivability...if the MU's happen to actually have spells for it. Using Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion is great and all...but it's also a 7th level spell (of which a wizard needs to be at least 13th level)...which any wizard will only ever have, at MOST, 2 of at level 20. So, "actual play" has the cards stacked against having all these perfect "survive the wilderness" spells, IME. Flying? Since when did flying make wandering monster encounters disappear? Again, we obviously have differing experiences, but in mine, flying 'all the time' was basically assigning the party to a death sentence at some random point in the future. What do you meet when flying? You mean things like Roc, Dragons, Air Elementals, Cloud Giants, and other things like that. Getting knocked of the flying carpet at 1,000' is generally a bad thing...as is the wizard loosing consciousness because he (and everyone else in the party) just took 60 points of damage from a blue dragon fly-by. Teleport? Reread the spell description. There's always a chance of failure...which can be very, very bad. Using teleport circles? Sounds good...but quite limited. Teleport is nice and quick, but definitely not the end-all be-all of high-level travel. Rogue/Bard Expertise? Rogue, nope (Nature isn't one of their skills). Bard, sure (Bard skills are "Choose three"). However, Nature skill is knowledge only. You can use it to what type of plant you just found is, and if it's berries are poisonous...but you can't use it to find a plant that has edible berries. Meanwhile, the Ranger can do all that the Bard can (even if at a lower Proficiency bonus), but the ranger can also keep his group moving through difficult terrain without hindrance, while tracking the 5 ogres, all the while foraging for food for the whole group for the day. A bard? Well, I guess he can sing a song about how much he wishes he was a ranger at that moment... ;) Moral of the story: Rangers are pretty awesome at surviving in the wilds. If the Bard in the group is "out surviving" the ranger, if your group is flying all over the place without encounters, or if they are teleporting everywhere because the wizard "grabs nail out of one of the crates that just came from the City Across the Sea" and teleports there...well, that's not because of the "bad Ranger class", it's because you have a bad DM. ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
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