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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 578614" data-attributes="member: 3051">Well, that was sort of the point.  There's already plenty of options for brute-force warrior.  Fighter is a very flexible class, and multiclasses so well that practically every similar concept can be mimicked.  Barbarian's up there, too.On the other hand, it'd be nice to have another "finesse" melee class, to go alongside the Rogue, Monk, and maybe Psychic Warrior.  Yes, it changes their role from front-line fighter to scout.  IMO, that's a good thing.  But, the difference isn't as drastic as you seem to think.D8 HP, Good Ref instead of Fort save, no Medium armor or Shield proficiency, No TWF or Ambidex:      These changes severely weaken the Rangers fighting pottential. He loses everrything except his BAB that make the Ranger a viable (though far from the best) front line fighter. How so?  He loses 1 HP/level + 1 (cuz he loses 2 at first level).  This isn't a large amount; I play a Psychic Warrior (also d8).  It's like saying that Fighters can't be effective in combat because they've got a smaller HD than Barbarians.  And look at the poor Rogues...If I was a front-line type I'd rather have Reflex than Fortitude anyway, given the number of Fireballs and Lightning Bolts that get thrown around.  Remember, the other high-DEX classes (Rogue, Monk) all get Evasion and even Improved Evasion.Under the current rules losing medium armor and shield is nothing, since Rangers will almost never wear medium armor (which neutralize their pseudoFeats).  Besides, high-DEX fighters go with light armor by choice, losing nothing in the process.Shield?  How many fighters go sword-n-board?  Practically every one I've seen goes 2-weapon or 2-handed.Losing 2-weapon and Ambidexterity is nothing, in the long run, since they're on the list of Feats the Ranger can use those Bonus Feats I gave him.  To a level 20 Ranger, it's an increase in power.  To a level 1, it's a decrease.  Which, of course, was part of the point.The Rogue has Sneak Attack and the Monk as bonuses to AC and extreme mobility to make up for their lesser armor profs and hit dice.  The Ranger loses far too much in the way of fighting ability.The Ranger has Favored Enemy and spells.  They may not be GOOD spells, but they're something.He also has a full BAB, unlike both classes you listed, as well as proficiency with all martial weapons.  In a way, he's a lot like the Psychic Warrior; the PW has all the defense of a Fighter but lags a bit on offense, while the Ranger keeps the offense but loses a little defense.So yes, it'll require a slight change in combat style; less Barbarian-like and more Rogue-like.  This doesn't make them less effective overall.All the feats you mention specifically could easily be integrated into the pre-existing Ranger class without unbalancing it. I disagree.  Many of these end up being major bonuses.  Adding 1d6 damage to any Favored Enemies (the Feat Favored Enemy Strike) is MUCH more powerful when you can spread points across more categories than before.  By the PHB, a level 7 Ranger has points in only 2 categories.  By my variant, he could have 1 point in 4 different ones.IMO, the PHB Ranger isn't underpowered, it's just boring and front-loaded, with a large number of early levels where no new class features are given.  Changes that increase power across the board aren't needed.Besides, I only listed some of the non-PHB Feats on the list.  The list also includes more mundane things like TWF/Ambi, PBS/Precise Shot, Combat Reflexes, and a few other PHB things.As for the Favored Enemy bonus, the way you've written it is a little unclear.  Does the progression continue as before from levels 11-20 (every odd level) or do they get another +1 every single level?  I think that every odd level is more than enough.It's every level from 11-20.  That is, you get bonuses at 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, ... 19, 20.  The standard PHB progression gives you a total of 15 pluses by the time you're level 20.  So does this.  The difference is, you can allocate them based on what you're fighting instead of taking Dragon at 1 just so that it's there by the end.For example, Bob the Ranger is level 15 and developed like this:At levels 1-9, he goes Goblin, Giant, Goblin, Elemental, Giant, Dragon.Then, at 11-15, he goes Dragon, Outsider (Demon), Dragon, Outsider (Devil), Magical Beasts.A PHB Ranger would be 4/3/2/1 at level 15.  Bob is Dragon 3, Giant 2, Goblin 1, Demon 1, Devil 1, Magical Beast 1, Elemental 1.  (This assumed Bob has WIS of 17 or higher)</blockquote>

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