Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Ranking the Weapon Mastery
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 9017640" data-attributes="member: 6932123"><p>Trying one more time to work out the Vex math. Going to brute force it instead of relying on math tricks, which I seem to be screwing up.</p><p></p><p>Let's start from the first swing without advantage. How does Vex progress from that?</p><p></p><p>Base damage: 4.5 (1d8) + 4 (Dex) = 8.5 + 5% * 4.5 = 8.725</p><p>Adv damage: 4.5 (1d8) + 4 (Dex) = 8.5 + 9.75% * 4.5 = 8.939</p><p></p><p>EDIT: Argh. OK, the crit damage calculations aren't done correctly when the accuracy is applied in the table below, rather than in the equation above. However the difference is like 0.1 damage, and won't be relevant to the final answer, so I'm not going to mess with it further.</p><p></p><p>The table is the chance the previous hit landed times the chance that the hit landed with advantage (higher damage due to higher crit chance) plus the chance the previous hit missed times the chance that a baseline attack will land. Anything else is a miss and doesn't contribute.</p><p></p><p>[CODE]0: ~ 60% * 8.725 + ~ 40% * 0 = 5.235</p><p>1: 60.0% * 84% * 8.939 + 40.0% * 60% * 8.725 = 6.599</p><p>2: 74.4% * 84% * 8.939 + 25.6% * 60% * 8.725 = 6.927</p><p>3: 77.9% * 84% * 8.939 + 22.1% * 60% * 8.725 = 7.006</p><p>4: 78.7% * 84% * 8.939 + 21.3% * 60% * 8.725 = 7.024</p><p>5: 78.9% * 84% * 8.939 + 21.1% * 60% * 8.725 = 7.024</p><p>6: 78.9% * 84% * 8.939 + 21.1% * 60% * 8.725 = 7.024[/CODE]</p><p></p><p>At this point the math is stable, where the chance to have advantage in the next round is the same as the previous round. It reaches a long-term average damage per hit of 7.02, compared to the base average of 5.235 per attack, which is a 34% gain if you can maintain that streak on a single mob.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, if you kill a mob in, say, four hits, your overall damage boost is about 23% before it resets back to baseline.</p><p></p><p>Checking at 70% base accuracy.</p><p></p><p>[CODE]0: ~ 70% * 8.725 + ~ 30% * 0 = 6.108</p><p>1: 70.0% * 91% * 8.939 + 30.0% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.526</p><p>2: 84.7% * 91% * 8.939 + 15.3% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.824</p><p>3: 87.8% * 91% * 8.939 + 12.2% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.887</p><p>4: 88.4% * 91% * 8.939 + 11.6% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.899</p><p>5: 88.6% * 91% * 8.939 + 11.4% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.903</p><p>6: 88.6% * 91% * 8.939 + 11.4% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.903[/CODE]</p><p></p><p>Again we've reached a stable point, with a Vex average damage of 7.9 compared to the baseline 6.1, for a 29% gain.</p><p></p><p>If you kill a mob in four hits and have to reset, your effective gain is about 20%.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If advantage is particularly useful to you (for example, a melee rogue wanting sneak attack on a mob he's fighting solo), it's obviously far better than the numbers suggest. If you just want it for better accuracy, and you can kill the mobs in a few hits, it's giving you about the same benefit as Graze (around 20%). For a longer fight against a boss mob, it will provide a better benefit than something like Graze.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kinematics, post: 9017640, member: 6932123"] Trying one more time to work out the Vex math. Going to brute force it instead of relying on math tricks, which I seem to be screwing up. Let's start from the first swing without advantage. How does Vex progress from that? Base damage: 4.5 (1d8) + 4 (Dex) = 8.5 + 5% * 4.5 = 8.725 Adv damage: 4.5 (1d8) + 4 (Dex) = 8.5 + 9.75% * 4.5 = 8.939 EDIT: Argh. OK, the crit damage calculations aren't done correctly when the accuracy is applied in the table below, rather than in the equation above. However the difference is like 0.1 damage, and won't be relevant to the final answer, so I'm not going to mess with it further. The table is the chance the previous hit landed times the chance that the hit landed with advantage (higher damage due to higher crit chance) plus the chance the previous hit missed times the chance that a baseline attack will land. Anything else is a miss and doesn't contribute. [CODE]0: ~ 60% * 8.725 + ~ 40% * 0 = 5.235 1: 60.0% * 84% * 8.939 + 40.0% * 60% * 8.725 = 6.599 2: 74.4% * 84% * 8.939 + 25.6% * 60% * 8.725 = 6.927 3: 77.9% * 84% * 8.939 + 22.1% * 60% * 8.725 = 7.006 4: 78.7% * 84% * 8.939 + 21.3% * 60% * 8.725 = 7.024 5: 78.9% * 84% * 8.939 + 21.1% * 60% * 8.725 = 7.024 6: 78.9% * 84% * 8.939 + 21.1% * 60% * 8.725 = 7.024[/CODE] At this point the math is stable, where the chance to have advantage in the next round is the same as the previous round. It reaches a long-term average damage per hit of 7.02, compared to the base average of 5.235 per attack, which is a 34% gain if you can maintain that streak on a single mob. On the other hand, if you kill a mob in, say, four hits, your overall damage boost is about 23% before it resets back to baseline. Checking at 70% base accuracy. [CODE]0: ~ 70% * 8.725 + ~ 30% * 0 = 6.108 1: 70.0% * 91% * 8.939 + 30.0% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.526 2: 84.7% * 91% * 8.939 + 15.3% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.824 3: 87.8% * 91% * 8.939 + 12.2% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.887 4: 88.4% * 91% * 8.939 + 11.6% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.899 5: 88.6% * 91% * 8.939 + 11.4% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.903 6: 88.6% * 91% * 8.939 + 11.4% * 70% * 8.725 = 7.903[/CODE] Again we've reached a stable point, with a Vex average damage of 7.9 compared to the baseline 6.1, for a 29% gain. If you kill a mob in four hits and have to reset, your effective gain is about 20%. If advantage is particularly useful to you (for example, a melee rogue wanting sneak attack on a mob he's fighting solo), it's obviously far better than the numbers suggest. If you just want it for better accuracy, and you can kill the mobs in a few hits, it's giving you about the same benefit as Graze (around 20%). For a longer fight against a boss mob, it will provide a better benefit than something like Graze. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Ranking the Weapon Mastery
Top