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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8684390" data-attributes="member: 67338">I would like to think that I am not toxic... but i will settle for 'mostly not' since I am far from perfect and have been dragged into fights repeatedly. I would agree if we didn't have multi examples of WotC listening to these complaints... hold that thought it goes with the next one.in 2000 WotC didn't really 'listen' but they had players who loved the game making the changes (I can tell you SOME common house rules from 2e made it into 3e just not many) but online people almost from the start picked up on issues (Ranger and Monk issues, Haste was way too powerful) and 3.5 tried to correct these... so those people that others tell to "just shut up and like it or play something else" (yeah sometimes they use other word but that is the jist) are not realizing 3.5 WAS becuse people complained online and on fourms.I complain A LOT about the mememification of the hate of 4e. but even before that "Fighters after level 5 are just carrying wizards things" was a 3.5 meme that brought us the more balanced 4e.   In fact I GURANTEE that somewhere in one of those meetings pitching and preping 4e had people talking about the stupid character op shenanigans of 3.5... I would NOT be surprised if Pun Pun himself was brought up.I wont pretend 4e was perfect, but it was so far my favorite edition of the game. BUT people complaining about it being a video game and "Too Balanced" and fighters using spells... caused the backlash of 5e.   Make no mistake they heard people complain. they heard the cries of 3.5 was better. So today, when people say "Why bring it up on enworld, why not just go play 4e?" my answer is ALWAYS the same... because 3.5 was a reaction to a grass roots dislike of 3e mechanics. 4e was a reaction to a mix of grass roots and memeification of problems with 3.5. the next playtest was a reaction to both real and imagined flaws in 4e being discussed... and 5e is what came from the next playtest (and that is it's own bag of issues).   So today we know somethings are changing in 2024. We already know problematic issues with race are up on the chopping block, and that monster/CR math is being fixed.  So I will gnash my teeth and complain every step of the next 2 years hopeing that others like me will chime in. When they do I hope it brings the 4e ideas (and some 2e ones) up to new players that only started in the last 5ish years... and they start talking about it too, and then THOSE voices will spread and WotC will bring back things for 5.5/6/anniversary edition.And what ever comes in 2024, I will begin talking about again, good bad and ugly. I will do this (as I am now) here, in person on social media (what ever the facebook/twitter/youtube/tictok of 2025 looks like) because I want my voice heard.  I don't for a moment believe that 1 voice makes it to WotC and changes the game... but 1 or 2 voices can start a snowball that when it builds up enough snow riding down hill can change EVERYTHING.</blockquote>

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