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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 9637291" data-attributes="member: 7635">The back and forth here isn't working because we're mixing and matching TSR editions in attempts to gotcha each other. I'm not interested in that. My point was that the idea that players would be happy with getting just some hit points and a +1 approvement to attack rolls died circa 2000. I'm not saying that's good or bad thing, but like downward AC or race/class restrictions, the smoke is out of the bottle. The only way you could remove much of feature bloat is to stone dead kill multiclassing so that people have no choice but to be happy with having six abilities that only improve periodically. Your fighter could look forward to 10 levels of lowering Thac0 and d10 HP because he didn't have a choice. Once he can branch into other classes, there is no reason to stay. Again, my point wasn't to besmirch older D&D (despite the fact you were absolutely ready to defend it's honor at the perceived slight). Merely that you could get away with huge stretches of getting nothing but number go higher because players didn't have a choice. That kind of design no longer works in a game where you can freely multiclass and cherry pick.</blockquote>