Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9642701" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>That was the point. There <em>isn't</em> one. Because <em>being</em> D&D-alike gets in the way. The <em>whole point</em> is that the hyper-centralism of DM authority gets in the way. This isn't a criticism (as I've said like four times now...). I think the DM/GM role is <em>useful</em> and have said as much. But as with any tool, its use comes with both utility and limitations. That is the nature of <em>all</em> tools, be they concrete or abstract. The Law of Non-contradiction is a tool, which limits what we are allowed to talk about (it makes it so we cannot engage with contradictions in a meaningful way), but by adopting it we gain the extremely powerful ability to do proof by contradiction. Using it, there is <em>more</em> we can prove, but less we can <em>say</em> (with any significance or meaning, I mean.) Avoiding it, there is <em>less</em> we can prove, but more statements we can make with valid meaning: its use or non-use is a trade-off between richness or description and analytic power. It is not objectively better nor worse to not use it; it is only better for particular purposes. And, much like using a DM/GM role, most of the time this tool is worth using, and the things lost when we choose to not use it may be sufficiently painful that the gain is not worth the loss. (Inconsistency-tolerant logics are fascinating, but often more for exploration than for use.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>I was responding to comments I saw as needlessly reductive and adversarial <em>first.</em></p><p></p><p>I don't like being adversarial. At all. But when people are brusque, flippant, and dismissive, I get quite annoyed. So when I see a comment which strikes me as flippant and dismissive, I respond by inverting the logic thereof, to throw a spotlight on how the reasoning behind it seems invalid to me. It is a pithy and efficient way to do so, which thus avoids the usual problem people have with my posts, that they are too long-winded and unnecessarily detailed.</p><p></p><p>(And, incidentally, this is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that if I post a <em>long</em> post, people complain I never get to the point; but when I post succinctly, people get mad about the succinct argument lacking nuance and detail.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>No. People are putting words in my mouth and getting upset about things I never said, sometimes literally saying things as if I were somehow disagreeing with a point <strong><em>I</em></strong> had made hours or even more <em>minutes</em> before.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9642701, member: 6790260"] That was the point. There [I]isn't[/I] one. Because [I]being[/I] D&D-alike gets in the way. The [I]whole point[/I] is that the hyper-centralism of DM authority gets in the way. This isn't a criticism (as I've said like four times now...). I think the DM/GM role is [I]useful[/I] and have said as much. But as with any tool, its use comes with both utility and limitations. That is the nature of [I]all[/I] tools, be they concrete or abstract. The Law of Non-contradiction is a tool, which limits what we are allowed to talk about (it makes it so we cannot engage with contradictions in a meaningful way), but by adopting it we gain the extremely powerful ability to do proof by contradiction. Using it, there is [I]more[/I] we can prove, but less we can [I]say[/I] (with any significance or meaning, I mean.) Avoiding it, there is [I]less[/I] we can prove, but more statements we can make with valid meaning: its use or non-use is a trade-off between richness or description and analytic power. It is not objectively better nor worse to not use it; it is only better for particular purposes. And, much like using a DM/GM role, most of the time this tool is worth using, and the things lost when we choose to not use it may be sufficiently painful that the gain is not worth the loss. (Inconsistency-tolerant logics are fascinating, but often more for exploration than for use.) I was responding to comments I saw as needlessly reductive and adversarial [I]first.[/I] I don't like being adversarial. At all. But when people are brusque, flippant, and dismissive, I get quite annoyed. So when I see a comment which strikes me as flippant and dismissive, I respond by inverting the logic thereof, to throw a spotlight on how the reasoning behind it seems invalid to me. It is a pithy and efficient way to do so, which thus avoids the usual problem people have with my posts, that they are too long-winded and unnecessarily detailed. (And, incidentally, this is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that if I post a [I]long[/I] post, people complain I never get to the point; but when I post succinctly, people get mad about the succinct argument lacking nuance and detail.) No. People are putting words in my mouth and getting upset about things I never said, sometimes literally saying things as if I were somehow disagreeing with a point [B][I]I[/I][/B] had made hours or even more [I]minutes[/I] before. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.
Top