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[rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9656003" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Content authority in Burning Wheel is distributed. For players, it is mediated via tests - typically Circles tests (to have one's PC meet a helpful NPC), Wises tests (to recall some useful bit of information about a place, thing, person, etc), or other knowledge/perception type tests. Here's an example of the latter (I've posted two accounts of it, because each highlights some slightly different features of the context and play:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Here's an example of a GM making a decision, which involves the invention of a NPC and the framing of a scene where the NPC confronts Aedhros; you can also see, as GMing duties shift when the action moves from Aedhros to Alicia, me as GM deciding that there is a key to be taken:</p><p>I think this gives some example of what it means to frame a scene having regard to player-determined priorities: Aedhros has the Instincts <em>Always repay hurt with hurt</em> and <em>When my mind is elsewhere, quietly sing the Elven lays</em>, and the Belief <em>I will never admit that I am wrong</em>: the narration of the petty official turning up to berate him speaks to all of those. And the key to the strongroom speaks to Alicia's Instinct, as well as her Belief that <em>I will one day be rich enough to BUY a ship</em>.</p><p></p><p>So, returning to the secret Kobold fighting ring - does it speak to player-determined priorities? In which case, GM, knock yourself out. If not, then why are you talking about it?</p><p></p><p>The BW rulebook has a page setting out the role of the GM, and another setting out "the sacred and most holy role of the players (Revised p 269; the text in Gold is the same), which includes the following:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Players in Burning Wheel must use their characters to drive the story forward - to resolve conflicts and create new ones. . . Use the mechanics! Players are expected to call for a Duel of Wits or a Circles test or to demand the Range and Cover rules in a shooting match with a Dark Elf assassin. Don't wait for the GM to invoke a rule - invoke the damn thing yourself and get the story moving! . . . If the story doesn't interest you, <em>it's your job to create interesting situations and involve yourself</em>.</p><p></p><p>If the GM starts talking about kobold fighting rings, and those are not speaking to my conception of my PC's interests and priorities, then I will use the mechanics to move the game in a more interesting direction. Here are some examples from actual play:</p><p></p><p>In order:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">*I (pemerton, the player) was not very excited by my GM's Elves - so I (Thurgon, the PC) tried to bend their leader to my will, and have him join me to help liberate Auxol. Predictably, I was not successful: but the <X - 15, say?> minutes spent playing that out were focused on <em>my</em> stuff, not the GM's Elf-y stuff.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*I am likewise not very excited by the Orc bait, and so I (Aramina, the PC) draw on my Great Masters-wise to recall something more interesting in the area - Evard's Tower! That is player content-introduction.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*I initiate the argument between Aramina and Thurgon, in which he persuades her to mend his armour (and also to go first to a fortress of his order, to get more information about Evard's Tower).</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*I, the player, want an encounter with family - and so make the Circles check. And a very interesting encounter with Rufus results.</p><p></p><p>These are practical examples of the player <em>using their characters to drive the story forward, resolving conflicts, creating new ones, using the mechanics (and calling for their use), and creating new situations when the existing ones don't interest me</em>.</p><p></p><p>Did you sneak, ninja-like, into the place where I was playing Burning Wheel in the suburbs of Melbourne? If not, then can you please refrain from making confident assertions about events that contradict the actual eyewitness account you've been given (ie by me).</p><p></p><p>The argument between Thurgon and Aramina, as I have said, was about <em>whether or not she would mend his armour</em>. Thurgon's armour was damaged (I would guess down a die of protection, though I don't recall the details); Aramina has Mending skill (and Thurgon does not). I've told you the context, and the Beliefs that were in play. As per the notes I found in an earlier post, quoted just above, Thurgon also persuaded Aramina to get some information first.</p><p></p><p>But it was not an attempt to <em>control movements</em>, nor was it about "personal autonomy". And the discussion <em>was</em> about the mending of the armour. That, more than the other aspect, is what has stuck in my mind for the years since the actual play of the episode.</p><p></p><p>If you can't recognise how the Belief <em>Aramina will need my protection</em> might prompt Thurgon to request that, before they go to a dangerous place, she should at least mend his armour, that's slightly odd to me, but whatever - it doesn't mean that my recollection and account of what actually happened is wrong. Likewise, if you can't see how the Belief <em>I don't need Thurgon's pity</em> might make Aramina bristle at Thugon's request, given the context that is motivating it, ditto.</p><p></p><p>And on the broader matter of the way that the intimate can become central to the action in BW, here's a post I made about the session with the armour argument, the same day as the player of the session:</p><p>And, again, this is what would inform and determine the results of the GM attempting to make the Kobold fighting ring central to play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9656003, member: 42582"] Content authority in Burning Wheel is distributed. For players, it is mediated via tests - typically Circles tests (to have one's PC meet a helpful NPC), Wises tests (to recall some useful bit of information about a place, thing, person, etc), or other knowledge/perception type tests. Here's an example of the latter (I've posted two accounts of it, because each highlights some slightly different features of the context and play: Here's an example of a GM making a decision, which involves the invention of a NPC and the framing of a scene where the NPC confronts Aedhros; you can also see, as GMing duties shift when the action moves from Aedhros to Alicia, me as GM deciding that there is a key to be taken: I think this gives some example of what it means to frame a scene having regard to player-determined priorities: Aedhros has the Instincts [I]Always repay hurt with hurt[/I] and [I]When my mind is elsewhere, quietly sing the Elven lays[/I], and the Belief [I]I will never admit that I am wrong[/I]: the narration of the petty official turning up to berate him speaks to all of those. And the key to the strongroom speaks to Alicia's Instinct, as well as her Belief that [I]I will one day be rich enough to BUY a ship[/I]. So, returning to the secret Kobold fighting ring - does it speak to player-determined priorities? In which case, GM, knock yourself out. If not, then why are you talking about it? The BW rulebook has a page setting out the role of the GM, and another setting out "the sacred and most holy role of the players (Revised p 269; the text in Gold is the same), which includes the following: [indent]Players in Burning Wheel must use their characters to drive the story forward - to resolve conflicts and create new ones. . . Use the mechanics! Players are expected to call for a Duel of Wits or a Circles test or to demand the Range and Cover rules in a shooting match with a Dark Elf assassin. Don't wait for the GM to invoke a rule - invoke the damn thing yourself and get the story moving! . . . If the story doesn't interest you, [I]it's your job to create interesting situations and involve yourself[/I].[/indent] If the GM starts talking about kobold fighting rings, and those are not speaking to my conception of my PC's interests and priorities, then I will use the mechanics to move the game in a more interesting direction. Here are some examples from actual play: In order: [indent]*I (pemerton, the player) was not very excited by my GM's Elves - so I (Thurgon, the PC) tried to bend their leader to my will, and have him join me to help liberate Auxol. Predictably, I was not successful: but the <X - 15, say?> minutes spent playing that out were focused on [i]my[/i] stuff, not the GM's Elf-y stuff. *I am likewise not very excited by the Orc bait, and so I (Aramina, the PC) draw on my Great Masters-wise to recall something more interesting in the area - Evard's Tower! That is player content-introduction. *I initiate the argument between Aramina and Thurgon, in which he persuades her to mend his armour (and also to go first to a fortress of his order, to get more information about Evard's Tower). *I, the player, want an encounter with family - and so make the Circles check. And a very interesting encounter with Rufus results.[/indent] These are practical examples of the player [I]using their characters to drive the story forward, resolving conflicts, creating new ones, using the mechanics (and calling for their use), and creating new situations when the existing ones don't interest me[/I]. Did you sneak, ninja-like, into the place where I was playing Burning Wheel in the suburbs of Melbourne? If not, then can you please refrain from making confident assertions about events that contradict the actual eyewitness account you've been given (ie by me). The argument between Thurgon and Aramina, as I have said, was about [I]whether or not she would mend his armour[/I]. Thurgon's armour was damaged (I would guess down a die of protection, though I don't recall the details); Aramina has Mending skill (and Thurgon does not). I've told you the context, and the Beliefs that were in play. As per the notes I found in an earlier post, quoted just above, Thurgon also persuaded Aramina to get some information first. But it was not an attempt to [I]control movements[/I], nor was it about "personal autonomy". And the discussion [I]was[/I] about the mending of the armour. That, more than the other aspect, is what has stuck in my mind for the years since the actual play of the episode. If you can't recognise how the Belief [I]Aramina will need my protection[/I] might prompt Thurgon to request that, before they go to a dangerous place, she should at least mend his armour, that's slightly odd to me, but whatever - it doesn't mean that my recollection and account of what actually happened is wrong. Likewise, if you can't see how the Belief [I]I don't need Thurgon's pity[/I] might make Aramina bristle at Thugon's request, given the context that is motivating it, ditto. And on the broader matter of the way that the intimate can become central to the action in BW, here's a post I made about the session with the armour argument, the same day as the player of the session: And, again, this is what would inform and determine the results of the GM attempting to make the Kobold fighting ring central to play. [/QUOTE]
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