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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9659780" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Except that that is absolutely false about things like Dungeon World. I don't play Burning Wheel, so I can't comment on that.It's also laughable to say that &quot;everything ever done by the character leading up to a decision point should impact the chance of success&quot;. That's never been true of any edition of D&amp;D--not with the extreme way it's phrased. Some things matter. A hell of a lot of things don't. That you have a +4 modifier does not in the slightest care about where that modifier came from. That you have Advantage does not in the slightest care where it came from--and, in particular, infinitely many sources of Disadvantage are cancelled out by even one singular source of Advantage (or vice-versa).It would help your case to not state it in such radical terms.Yeah, sorry, I just don't accept this. Hardcore relativism of all stripes has never made a compelling argument, and hardcore design relativism isn't any better.We can still make comparisons. Those comparisons may require nuance or subtlety. That doesn't mean we should stop making them. Otherwise, every game is already perfectly itself. It can never be criticized. It can never be analyzed. It can never be understood or improved or studied. It just is, a whole, perfect, unassailable, undiscussable unit unto itself.At which point, pack up the boards ladies and gentlemen, we've defined away any possible utility they could have other than &quot;look at this cool thing&quot;, which Instagram is infinitely superior for.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9659780, member: 6790260"] Except that that is absolutely false about things like Dungeon World. I don't play Burning Wheel, so I can't comment on that. It's also [I]laughable[/I] to say that "everything ever done by the character leading up to a decision point should impact the chance of success". That's never been true of [I]any[/I] edition of D&D--not with the extreme way it's phrased. Some things matter. A hell of a lot of things don't. That you have a +4 modifier does not in the slightest care about where that modifier came from. That you have Advantage does not in the slightest care where it came from--and, in particular, [I]infinitely many sources of Disadvantage[/I] are cancelled out by even one singular source of Advantage (or vice-versa). It would help your case to not state it in such radical terms. Yeah, sorry, I just don't accept this. Hardcore relativism of all stripes has never made a compelling argument, and hardcore [I]design[/I] relativism isn't any better. We can still make comparisons. Those comparisons may require nuance or subtlety. That doesn't mean we should stop making them. Otherwise, every game is already perfectly itself. It can never be criticized. It can never be analyzed. It can never be [I]understood[/I] or [I]improved[/I] or [I]studied[/I]. It just is, a whole, perfect, unassailable, undiscussable unit unto itself. At which point, pack up the boards ladies and gentlemen, we've defined away any possible utility they could have other than "look at this cool thing", which Instagram is infinitely superior for.[I][/I] [/QUOTE]

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