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<blockquote data-quote="SableWyvern" data-source="post: 9678130" data-attributes="member: 1008">If the group has been thrown in a pit from which there is no feasible means of escape and they have been left to die, &quot;points of failure&quot; are no longer a concern. It sounds to me like this is describing a campaign end state, not a problem to be overcome.Edit to add: I will agree that it is one situation where it's either forward or stop forever, but it must be built on a whole sequence of events and decisions that led to this point. If this ending isn't acceptable, it shouldn't have been allowed in the first place. As I mentioned earlier, if it was allowed when it shouldn't have been, I don't need fail forward to fix it, I just say, &quot;Hey, it's not reasonable that the party was thrown in the Pit of No Return just for jaywalking, I was meant to say you get thrown in the Pit of the Overnight Stay&quot; or whatever.If the PCs have allowed themselves to be captured by Evil Overlord Literally Merciless, with a full understanding of the risks and potential consequences and have failed to utilise any chance of a escape leading up to this point and now they're out of options, then so be it. But there would have been a whole long sequence of events leading up to such a final ending and probably more than one, &quot;Are you sure that's what you want to do?&quot; from me before such a thing occurred.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="SableWyvern, post: 9678130, member: 1008"] If the group has been thrown in a pit from which there is no feasible means of escape and they have been left to die, "points of failure" are no longer a concern. It sounds to me like this is describing a campaign end state, not a problem to be overcome. Edit to add: I will agree that it is one situation where it's either forward or stop forever, but it must be built on a whole sequence of events and decisions that led to this point. If this ending isn't acceptable, it shouldn't have been allowed in the first place. As I mentioned earlier, if it was allowed when it shouldn't have been, I don't need fail forward to fix it, I just say, "Hey, it's not reasonable that the party was thrown in the Pit of No Return just for jaywalking, I was meant to say you get thrown in the Pit of the Overnight Stay" or whatever. If the PCs have allowed themselves to be captured by Evil Overlord Literally Merciless, with a full understanding of the risks and potential consequences and have failed to utilise any chance of a escape leading up to this point and now they're out of options, then so be it. But there would have been a whole long sequence of events leading up to such a final ending and probably more than one, "Are you sure that's what you want to do?" from me before such a thing occurred. [/QUOTE]

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