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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 9679357" data-attributes="member: 71699">To my reading your discussion touches on many of the relevant aspects. Hopefully we can agree that games of chance and those with hidden information are properly counted among what we mean by games.There can be fair and unfair versions of your game. In fair versions, players know what range the limit can fall within and its expected distribution over that range, and same for their rolls. Skilled play means &quot;playing the odds&quot; i.e. ponying up every time doing so will most likely mean success. In a fair game the payout fairly compensates for the odds so that the odds themselves are not at issue, but rather player's ability to calculate and respond to them.I think the consequences of that are different from what you propose. If it's indeed a &quot;mere guessing game&quot; that implies you are discussing an unfair version of your game, because sharing even partial information can still lead to valid game play. It just means that player ability to work with probabilities and hidden information becomes part of the skill of play.Examples of this sort of thing are sometimes seen in skirmish minigames when the outcome is tight. A player (Jo, say) has a choice to retreat saving their own skin, or make an attack roll against a heavily wounded final opponent. Unfortunately Jo is also heavily wounded and the attack back could be a killer. When should Jo stand their ground? Players can make both playful and gameful decisions about that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 9679357, member: 71699"] To my reading your discussion touches on many of the relevant aspects. Hopefully we can agree that games of chance and those with hidden information are properly counted among what we mean by games. There can be fair and unfair versions of your game. In fair versions, players know what range the limit can fall within and its expected distribution over that range, and same for their rolls. Skilled play means "playing the odds" i.e. ponying up every time doing so will most likely mean success. In a fair game the payout fairly compensates for the odds so that the odds themselves are not at issue, but rather player's ability to calculate and respond to them. I think the consequences of that are different from what you propose. If it's indeed a "mere guessing game" that implies you are discussing an unfair version of your game, because sharing even [I]partial[/I] information can still lead to valid game play. It just means that player ability to work with probabilities and hidden information becomes part of the skill of play. Examples of this sort of thing are sometimes seen in skirmish minigames when the outcome is tight. A player (Jo, say) has a choice to retreat saving their own skin, or make an attack roll against a heavily wounded final opponent. Unfortunately Jo is also heavily wounded and the attack back could be a killer. When should Jo stand their ground? Players can make both playful and gameful decisions about that. [/QUOTE]

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