NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9694738" data-attributes="member: 6795602">You just plainly described the difference.1)  The game system has a rule for killing Orcs.2)  In MHRP, the game system has a rule for the player establishing what strange runes say.I'll note that of particular importance is the fact that you specifically didn't describe the first as 'the game system has a rule for the player establishing they killed an Orc', which would have been an exact match of the wording used for the second.  So before I proceed with putting words in your mouth, let's establish whether you think this would be an accurate description.  If not, then not being able to describe the 2 events using identical language suggests the 2 events are not identical.Yes, it is true that players in both games invoke a rule and in both games invoking that rule establishes fiction.  That's never been in dispute.  I fully agree with that.  We all do.  Those details aren't where the difference lies though, so its not clear why that part keeps getting repeated.I don't think I disagree here.I do disagree here.  There are countless possible goals the player could have declared he reads the runes in order to obtain.  He could have declared he reads them for any 1 of those.All of them.  I mean you could have skipped straight to the counterexample part.  But we can get to the same place over multiple bite sized posts I guess.All the examples are meant to do there is to show we reach the same point in discussion even without outlandish examples.  The con of the runes example is that it breaks the simulation.  That doesn't mean you have to care about the simulation. Having a con doesn't mean something is wrong with it.  A con of my 2013 Toyota Corolla is that it's not a flashy status symbol.  The pro is it's reliable, wasn't too expensive and gets good gas mileage. Whatever you want to call it.  You know exactly what I meant.I'm 100% certain that many of the things you call bad D&D play others call good D&D play.That must have sucked.  So maybe you can realize how others feel when the same is being done toward them and their play.</blockquote>

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