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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 9714734" data-attributes="member: 6915329">Wikipedia: Diegetic music, also called source music, is music that is part of the fictional world portrayed in a narrative (such as a film, show, play, or video game) and is thus knowingly performed or heard by the characters.<a href="<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diegetic_music#cite_note-1" target="_blank">Diegetic music - Wikipedia</a>">[1]</a> This is in contrast to non-diegetic music, which is <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidental_music" target="_blank">incidental music</a> or a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_score" target="_blank">score</a> that is heard by the viewer but not the characters, or in musical theater, when characters are singing in a manner that they would not do in a realistic setting.So, you're wrong, Hussar. Diegetic music is something that exists within the fiction of the movie. The fact that the audience can hear it is incidental, and it happens that way because of how we, the audience, experience movies. If a character in a book plays music, we, the reader, can't hear it, but it would still be part of the fictional world portrayed in a narrative. Likewise, in an RPG, I can describe my PC or an NPC as playing music, but unless I actually turn some music on for real, the music only exists in the fictional world of the game and can't be heard by the players sitting at the table. Or in other words, if a character in a movie is playing a piano, that music doesn't stop being diegetic if the only person watching the movie is Deaf. That being said, we're talking about RPGs, which are inherently interactive. So lemme look online a bit...From <a href="https://pathikablog.com/2021/03/17/what-does-diegesis-have-to-do-with-games/" target="_blank">Pathika</a>: Diegesis as it is currently used in the tabletop RPG community follows its use in film theory: things that exist in an imagined world set forth for the audience, as opposed to things that may be shown to the audience but which do not exist in that world.The article goes on to discuss the difference between diegesis, abstract, and mechanics. For instance (in discussing Moldevay's D&D), Class may or may not be diegetic. For instance, someone with the Cleric class may or may not be an actual member of a priesthood. In another instance, moves in a PbtA game are often diegetic, particularly those that require the GM to truthfully answer questions. There's a similar article on <a href="https://cavegirlgames.blogspot.com/2019/09/terminology-diegetic-vs-non-diegetic.html" target="_blank">Cavegirl's Game Stuff</a>.<a href="https://cannibalhalflinggaming.com/2025/01/29/diegesis-mimesis-and-you/" target="_blank">Cannibal Halfling Games</a> talks about diegesis vs. mimesis, and the problems with making mechanics for fictional elements, and how that's generally limited to what the designer thinks is realistic.From <a href="https://www.mapandkey.net/blog/diegetic-leveling-in-5th-edition-dampd" target="_blank">Map And Key</a>: The discussion is about diegetic leveling in 5e, which basically boils down to having to do something to justify getting new abilities as you level up, rather than just getting them all at once. A variant on the old training rules, but more interactive than just paying a bunch of money. This <a href="https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/diegetic-classes.5300/" target="_blank">thread</a> on RPG Pub does the same, but with a wee bit more detail.From <a href="https://bragrman.com/2017/08/07/diegesis-in-ttrpgs/" target="_blank">Bragman's Sidequests:</a> This post is about diegesis, metagaming, player/character separation, and table talk. So, Hussar, while I haven't been paying too much attention to this particular side-thread--since it's been mostly nitpicking definitions--it doesn't seem like you're using the term correctly. Or at least not in the way it's commonly used in RPGs. The only reason something exists in both the narrative and the real world is because we, the viewers, need to experience it in some way. It's not actually required that something exist in both to be diegetic.</blockquote>

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