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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9715465" data-attributes="member: 6790260">But climbing can exist without climbing rules. Your argument is built on a falsehood.Yes, it literally is.Utterly, totally, completely unrelated.The cork lining is PHYSICALLY THERE.The climbing check is not. Try again. Show me where the climbing check is PHYSICALLY IN the world--not just a representation OF the world.Irrelevant. I genuinely have no idea why you keep mentioning this, because--just as with the climb check--the GM is not physically in the world. It's not just that the character is failing to directly observe it. It's that it literally isn't there.The climb check is not in, nor of, the world. It is simply our abstraction which lets us find out what is. That's what makes it a map, a representation.Nope. Again, I have no idea why you keep saying this, because it is completely and utterly irrelevant.But you can climb without climb mechanics. OD&D doesn't have them.Show me where the climb check is physically in the imagined world, and I'll give you this. Because then it actually is the cork lining.I'm 100% confident you cannot do this, because like every rule of the game, it isn't in the world at all. It is completely separate from the world, simply used to aid our decision-making processes.It's not a false equivalence. You just keep bringing up a completely irrelevant factoid and then using it to assert something that is objectively false.The climb check isn't in the world. It isn't an action someone takes. The action someone takes is climbing. We--GMs or whomever--choose an abstraction that is not determined by human choices. That doesn't make the abstraction any more physically in the imagined world than any other abstraction is.</blockquote>

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