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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9719558" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I might have played Diplomacy, but if I did it was a long time ago. I have heard much of Catan, have not played it. I have played the video games of the AoW series (all but the first one, IIRC; good series!), but no board games.Of the games I have played, I have never seen freewheeling negotiation in them. There are pretty hard limits on what you may negotiate over, how you may negotiate, and when you may negotiate. You cannot, for example, negotiate that you will stop using a hex-grid and instead use an octagonal grid drawn as squares (meaning, every square is adjacent to all of its cardinal neighbors and all of its ordinal neighbors, aka, the squares that it only touches at a single vertex, not an edge.)Hence why I used the terms I did. Negotiation takes place in a defined manner, under strict rules (you can only exchange resources for other resources in Catan, as I understood it; please correct me if I'm wrong there.) You cannot negotiate the fundamental structure of the game.It's not just imagination. You can negotiate the rules of the game themselves. You have ceased to play Dune, and you are now playing &quot;whatever rules we have decided to replace Dune with, unless and until we decide to replace them with other rules&quot;, it just might be the case that that set of rules includes all members of the set &quot;the rules of Dune&quot; except those involving combat, or whatever.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9719558, member: 6790260"] I might have played Diplomacy, but if I did it was a long time ago. I have heard much of Catan, have not played it. I have played the video games of the AoW series (all but the first one, IIRC; good series!), but no board games. Of the games I have played, I have never seen [I]freewheeling[/I] negotiation in them. There are pretty hard limits on what you may negotiate over, how you may negotiate, and when you may negotiate. You cannot, for example, negotiate that you will stop using a hex-grid and instead use an octagonal grid drawn as squares (meaning, every square is adjacent to all of its cardinal neighbors [I]and[/I] all of its ordinal neighbors, aka, the squares that it only touches at a single vertex, not an edge.) Hence why I used the terms I did. Negotiation takes place in a defined manner, under strict rules (you can only exchange resources for other resources in Catan, as I understood it; please correct me if I'm wrong there.) You cannot negotiate [I]the fundamental structure of the game[/I]. It's not just imagination. You can negotiate [I]the rules of the game themselves[/I]. You have ceased to play Dune, and you are now playing "whatever rules we have decided to replace Dune with, unless and until we decide to replace them with other rules", it just might be the case that that set of rules includes all members of the set "the rules of Dune" [I]except[/I] those involving combat, or whatever. [/QUOTE]

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