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Rapid Shot and Multi Shot at once?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 3076476" data-attributes="member: 1656"><p>Manyshot lets you, as a standard action, shoot multiple arrows.</p><p></p><p>It does not let you shoot multiple arrows in place of any ranged attack.</p><p></p><p>Rapid Shot grants you an extra ranged attack.</p><p></p><p>The attack action is a standard action that lets you make a single ranged attack.</p><p></p><p>That doesn't mean that a/ any attack is a standard action, nor b/ any standard action can be substituted any time you could make an attack.</p><p></p><p>The Cast a Spell action, for example, might let you make a ranged attack (if you used it to cast, say, Scorching Ray). Does this mean I can use Rapid Shot to cast Scorching Ray as part of my Full Attack action? No... because while the spell incorporates a ranged attack, it requires a standard action to cast.</p><p></p><p>Manyshot incorporates a ranged attack, but it incorporates that ranged attack <em>as part oif a standard action</em>, and that's the bit you can't shoehorn into a Full Attack action.</p><p></p><p>Where you're misstepping is "a ranged attack ceases to be a standard action, and becomes..."</p><p></p><p>An attack is not an action at all; it's something that occurs as part of an action. It might occur once as part of the standard action 'Attack', or more than once as part of the full round action 'Full Attack', or on an AoO (not an action), <em>or as part of the Manyshot standard action</em>.</p><p></p><p>If you take the ranged attack out of the Manyshot standard action (where it allows multiple arrows), and insert it into the Full Attack action, it no longer benefits from the Manyshot feat.</p><p></p><p>For what it's worth, the 3.5 Main FAQ has this to say (referring to the ELH version of the feat, but the important points are still relevant to the PHB version):</p><p></p><p><strong>One of the players in a campaign that I run took the</strong></p><p><strong>Manyshot feat from the Epic Level Handbook. His character</strong></p><p><strong>gets three attacks if he takes the full attack action, from a</strong></p><p><strong>base attack bonus of +6/+1 and the Rapid Shot feat. He</strong></p><p><strong>claims that with Manyshot he can fire six arrows as a fullround</strong></p><p><strong>action. I say he can’t, since the feat applies only to</strong></p><p><strong>standard actions. I think that the feat allows him to fire two</strong></p><p><strong>shots during a standard action as opposed to the usual</strong></p><p><strong>single shot that is allowed. Does Manyshot apply to full</strong></p><p><strong>attack as well as standard actions? I would greatly</strong></p><p><strong>appreciate it if you could shed some light on the situation.</strong></p><p></p><p><em>You’re right about Manyshot. It allows the character to</em></p><p><em>shoot two or more arrows as a standard action. It does not allow</em></p><p><em>the character to fire two or more arrows in place of a single</em></p><p><em>attack. Standard actions can’t be combined with full attacks,</em></p><p><em>nor are they part of a full attack.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The example character has a base attack bonus of +6; with</em></p><p><em>the Rapid Shot and Manyshot feats, the character has the</em></p><p><em>following options:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>• Fire one arrow as a standard action (at +6).</em></p><p><em>• Fire two arrows as a standard action (at +2—the second</em></p><p><em>printing of the Epic Level Handbook says the penalty for</em></p><p><em>Manyshot is –4, not –2 as stated in the first printing).</em></p><p><em>• Fire two arrows as a full-round action (+6/+1).</em></p><p><em>• Fire three arrows as a full-round action (+4/+4/–1, with</em></p><p><em>Rapid Shot)</em></p><p></p><p>-Hyp.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 3076476, member: 1656"] Manyshot lets you, as a standard action, shoot multiple arrows. It does not let you shoot multiple arrows in place of any ranged attack. Rapid Shot grants you an extra ranged attack. The attack action is a standard action that lets you make a single ranged attack. That doesn't mean that a/ any attack is a standard action, nor b/ any standard action can be substituted any time you could make an attack. The Cast a Spell action, for example, might let you make a ranged attack (if you used it to cast, say, Scorching Ray). Does this mean I can use Rapid Shot to cast Scorching Ray as part of my Full Attack action? No... because while the spell incorporates a ranged attack, it requires a standard action to cast. Manyshot incorporates a ranged attack, but it incorporates that ranged attack [i]as part oif a standard action[/i], and that's the bit you can't shoehorn into a Full Attack action. Where you're misstepping is "a ranged attack ceases to be a standard action, and becomes..." An attack is not an action at all; it's something that occurs as part of an action. It might occur once as part of the standard action 'Attack', or more than once as part of the full round action 'Full Attack', or on an AoO (not an action), [i]or as part of the Manyshot standard action[/i]. If you take the ranged attack out of the Manyshot standard action (where it allows multiple arrows), and insert it into the Full Attack action, it no longer benefits from the Manyshot feat. For what it's worth, the 3.5 Main FAQ has this to say (referring to the ELH version of the feat, but the important points are still relevant to the PHB version): [b]One of the players in a campaign that I run took the Manyshot feat from the Epic Level Handbook. His character gets three attacks if he takes the full attack action, from a base attack bonus of +6/+1 and the Rapid Shot feat. He claims that with Manyshot he can fire six arrows as a fullround action. I say he can’t, since the feat applies only to standard actions. I think that the feat allows him to fire two shots during a standard action as opposed to the usual single shot that is allowed. Does Manyshot apply to full attack as well as standard actions? I would greatly appreciate it if you could shed some light on the situation.[/b] [i]You’re right about Manyshot. It allows the character to shoot two or more arrows as a standard action. It does not allow the character to fire two or more arrows in place of a single attack. Standard actions can’t be combined with full attacks, nor are they part of a full attack. The example character has a base attack bonus of +6; with the Rapid Shot and Manyshot feats, the character has the following options: • Fire one arrow as a standard action (at +6). • Fire two arrows as a standard action (at +2—the second printing of the Epic Level Handbook says the penalty for Manyshot is –4, not –2 as stated in the first printing). • Fire two arrows as a full-round action (+6/+1). • Fire three arrows as a full-round action (+4/+4/–1, with Rapid Shot)[/i] -Hyp. [/QUOTE]
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