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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6684211" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!Short version:  Discouraging non-DM's from reading stuff not in the PHB was primarily for two things.   First, to distinctly differentiate the Players role from the DM's role. Just like the top dogs at WotC don't disseminate their confidential memos about where they want to take the D&D brand, to everyone that works for them. Same idea; those who are not "in control of the operation" don't need to know any of that stuff, and by not knowing it, it differentiates the roles between Player and DM. That difference allows the DM leeway for the introduction of his/her own 'stuff' (rules, items, monsters, etc) and no Player would know the difference. Encountering a Ettercap for the first time, or a Vanderlaang for the first time....the Players would see both on "equal footing". This leads into...Second, mystery. It allows "mystery" for the Players. The Players don't know the monsters. They don't know the magic items. They don't know their chances for surviving being thrown into a deep river, being swept down rapids, whilst wearing their backpack, weapons and armor. From their perspective they just use their imaginations to picture the situation. From there, they role-play what their character would do to try and survive. Dread and excitement ensue! The DM tells them to make this roll, or that save, or some other check... and the Player rolls, not knowing the exact details. Excitement in the face of the unknown is a KEY (if not THE key) ingredient of playing an RPG in the first place. By keeping the players from "peeking behind the curtain" (as some wise writer once said), it helps maintain that mystery. As soon as you have a Player instantly flip open the PHB, then make some quick calculations, roll a d20, then blurt out, "Ok. I made my Swim check with all the appropriate modifiers. I beat the DC for River - Rapids by 6... so I swim to shore"... well, you've just (A) erased that distinction between DM and Player, and (B) sucked all the mystery and excitement out of would could have been a wonderfully dramatic situation.So, while I understand your stance on it, I don't think you've thought through the actual consequences of what the 3e+ "Everyone can read every book" action. I NEVER has as many arguments with players as I do when I'm trying to DM players who have grown up with 3.x/4e/PF. Virtually every ruling or adjudication I make is questioned and dissected. Books are flipped open, rules are pointed out, Feats are read aloud, etc, etc, etc. I have to explain why their roll of 22 failed when the rules say the DC check is a 18 at maximum. If I don't, kittens are lost in epic fashion. Giving in, I finally say "Guys! It's a fricken illusion! OK?! See!? THAT'S why you 'failed'...because the illusion makes you 'fail'." Aaaaaannnd.... POOF! Mystery gone. DM authority undermined. Future situations with anything "not in the rules", negated. No thank you. I will not play/DM in that kind of game.And, as a final note, you not liking the distinction between Player and DM is just something you'll have to live with. You can try and delude yourself into thinking both are "the same", but they aren't. And they SHOULDN'T be. Not any more than the players in a sport should have equal say in rulings made by the referee. The Ref is there to maintain structure and fairness. This should lead to the players enjoying the game more. Yes, they may argue with this call or that, but ultimately they know that the Ref is not "just another player"... and that he/she is outside all that stuff. A Referee in an RPG is the very similar; he/she is not a player. Different responsibilities and different goals. Why do people play sports? Because they enjoy it. Why do people Referee sports? Because they enjoy it. Claiming that both types (players and refs) should be treated "equal" is...silly, IMHO.PS: As for "punishing DM's when they play", I don't think so. It advocates punishing those who abuse it; those who use their knowledge above and beyond what their PC's may reasonably know. That said...any DM worth his salt would have a LOT of different things anyway. So a DM playing in another's game may have his DM knowledge bite him in the butt by making the assumption that Rule X works as per the DMG Page XX; when in fact, in this DM's game, it has been modified significantly. This all ties back into the "Players don't need to know" thing quite nicely.^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

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