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Message: <blockquote data-quote="carpedavid" data-source="post: 1914159" data-attributes="member: 6971">What shilsen said... Additionally, though - consider that part of the "challenge" of a mundane dungeon is navigation. At low levels, the limited choice of movement methods is part of what makes a dungeon hard. The PCs have a limited capacity for bypassing the mundane limitations of knowing what's around the next corner or being able to walk through walls. Therefore, they have to walk by that lovingly crafted trap, or that pool of green slime, or that group of kobolds. At higher levels, magic allows the PCs to bypass much of those "challenges" - and for good reason. If the only difference between a low level dungeon and a high level dungeon was the hit dice of the monster around the next corner, the game would have the tendency to get monotonous (at least in my opinion). At 17th level, physical obstructions simply aren't, well, obstructive... Therefore, you need to create different challenges for the PCs. Perhaps a dungeon that's designed by a high level elementalist who has the ability to walk through earth. There might be no tunnels or passages at all - just pockets of air separated by great distances. Perhaps he's assembled a bunch of geodes that he uses as chambers. Elemental swarm might actually be neccessary to figure out how to navigate the dungeon! Just remember that the whole point of magic is to be able to overcome challenges. High level magic requires high level challenges, and not just high HD monsters. I wouldn't recommend banning high level spells that seem to "break" your dungeon. Rather, I'd consider them a challenge. Use them to make yourself a more creative DM. You may want to read my judgment of a semifinal match in the Fall 2004 Iron DM contest that adresses this very issue: <a href="http://www.aquerra.com/rbdmc/viewtopic.php?p=1526#1526" target="_blank">http://www.aquerra.com/rbdmc/viewtopic.php?p=1526#1526</a></blockquote>

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