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<blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 7887012" data-attributes="member: 83242"><p>I get that, of course I am not going to exclude monsters just because the came out after the MM.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to play PF2e yet, but just looking through the MM and bestiary I don't see that. I do think 5e monster design is lacking in "powerful abilities" though. I've been perusing the Bestiary while waiting for your response and I have seen a few fun things in high level monsters. I prefer the PF2e balor to 5e balor for example, though despite not really liking 5e dragons I prefer them to PF2e dragons (at least the ancient ones). I also prefer the 5e aboleth to the PF2e version. I also don't see anything special in the orc warrior to make me think its better than the 5e orc. I guess it is a case by case thing. Regardless, glad you are enjoying them!</p><p></p><p> I agree with that and it is basically the 4e and 5e philosophy as well. I do like to have some extra stuff beyond the essentials too though, but realize that is not the best for a "game."</p><p></p><p>Interestingly, the new 5e standard (it appears) is to include a spell description of a signature spell from the spell list in the Actions section of the stat block. Maybe PF2e will move this way as well. I will say using the online PF2e SRD which links to the spells in the monster stat block mitigates this issue somewhat.</p><p></p><p> I just haven't seen it to be much different form 5e at this point (from a monster design perspective). Perhaps it is an issue of a small thing on paper is magnified in play. I guess playing is believing! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dave2008, post: 7887012, member: 83242"] I get that, of course I am not going to exclude monsters just because the came out after the MM. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to play PF2e yet, but just looking through the MM and bestiary I don't see that. I do think 5e monster design is lacking in "powerful abilities" though. I've been perusing the Bestiary while waiting for your response and I have seen a few fun things in high level monsters. I prefer the PF2e balor to 5e balor for example, though despite not really liking 5e dragons I prefer them to PF2e dragons (at least the ancient ones). I also prefer the 5e aboleth to the PF2e version. I also don't see anything special in the orc warrior to make me think its better than the 5e orc. I guess it is a case by case thing. Regardless, glad you are enjoying them! I agree with that and it is basically the 4e and 5e philosophy as well. I do like to have some extra stuff beyond the essentials too though, but realize that is not the best for a "game." Interestingly, the new 5e standard (it appears) is to include a spell description of a signature spell from the spell list in the Actions section of the stat block. Maybe PF2e will move this way as well. I will say using the online PF2e SRD which links to the spells in the monster stat block mitigates this issue somewhat. I just haven't seen it to be much different form 5e at this point (from a monster design perspective). Perhaps it is an issue of a small thing on paper is magnified in play. I guess playing is believing! :) [/QUOTE]
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