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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 7888667" data-attributes="member: 957">I did mean to deny it.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.I'm a little surprised at the conversation, but it is truly a trivial point.&nbsp; As much as I'm willing to complain about flaws in PF2E, I'm not at all trying to make that claim here.&nbsp; To the contrary, my point is that this issue is completely neither here nor there.&nbsp; I'll try again.&nbsp; If they had changed not a word in the PF2 bestiary but had gone through an made every single one CR higher, then we would be discussing how PF2E had made monsters less dangerous.&nbsp; Now, obviously changing the CR does nothing whatsoever to change the combat effectiveness of that monster.&nbsp;&nbsp; CR is a completely meta concept.&nbsp; You could (and probably would) run the exact same encounter in two parallel universes and in one case it is &quot;difficult&quot; encounter in a game where the creatures are not that bad and in another it is classified as a &quot;normal&quot; encounter, but the creatures are &quot;more deadly&quot;.&nbsp; And yet at the table it would play out exactly the same.&nbsp; I think it is in part a side effect of the tight math allowance, but ultimately it is just a minor aesthetic choice that they bumped numbers one way vs. the other.I could argue that PF1E is superior here. Because the CRs are shifted lower I have more economy to build diverse groups of monsters.&nbsp; Because my main creature is less deadly, I can add a more diverse group of mooks without blowing the encounter design budget, so I have more options for entertaining encounters.&nbsp; But obviously that would be a stupid claim to make.&nbsp; You can create just as diverse encounters for PF2E and they will work just as well.&nbsp; CR is a good tool if used appropriately, but the arbitrary dividing points don't matter once a GM has some experience. You did make an interesting point regarding the 3AE in your following post.&nbsp; And I think that is valid.&nbsp; But I don't see that as the point I was responding to.&nbsp; And, as I already noted, I'm using the 3AE from PF Unchained anyway.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 7888667, member: 957"] I did mean to deny it. :). I'm a little surprised at the conversation, but it is truly a trivial point. As much as I'm willing to complain about flaws in PF2E, I'm not at all trying to make that claim here. To the contrary, my point is that this issue is completely neither here nor there. I'll try again. If they had changed not a word in the PF2 bestiary but had gone through an made every single one CR higher, then we would be discussing how PF2E had made monsters less dangerous. Now, obviously changing the CR does nothing whatsoever to change the combat effectiveness of that monster. CR is a completely meta concept. You could (and probably would) run the exact same encounter in two parallel universes and in one case it is "difficult" encounter in a game where the creatures are not that bad and in another it is classified as a "normal" encounter, but the creatures are "more deadly". And yet at the table it would play out exactly the same. I think it is in part a side effect of the tight math allowance, but ultimately it is just a minor aesthetic choice that they bumped numbers one way vs. the other. I could argue that PF1E is superior here. Because the CRs are shifted lower I have more economy to build diverse groups of monsters. Because my main creature is less deadly, I can add a more diverse group of mooks without blowing the encounter design budget, so I have more options for entertaining encounters. But obviously that would be a stupid claim to make. You can create just as diverse encounters for PF2E and they will work just as well. CR is a good tool if used appropriately, but the arbitrary dividing points don't matter once a GM has some experience. You did make an interesting point regarding the 3AE in your following post. And I think that is valid. But I don't see that as the point I was responding to. And, as I already noted, I'm using the 3AE from PF Unchained anyway. [/QUOTE]

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