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<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 7533623" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>I think the chain yanking has a LOT to do with people not liking <em>The Last Jedi</em>. It spent a lot of its runtime zigging when everyone expected it to zag. We've been conditioned to expect certain things in these kind of movies over the last, well.... fifty years? Sixty? And this movie flipped the table each time. </p><p>Suddenly we're out of our comfort zone and unhappy. </p><p></p><p>(And then people complain about every Marvel movie being the same.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>This assumes they changed it. They didn't.</p><p>Abrams had an idea, but didn't share it. No one told Rian Johnson anything and he made no changes. He picked what he thought was the most interesting answer in terms of drama and theme.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So a double Anakin who only had a mom? </p><p>But... doesn't that just create more questions? (How? Why?) And it makes her a weird child of destiny/ chosen one. </p><p></p><p></p><p>We know more about him than we knew about the Emperor in the Original Trilogy, as we know his title <em>and</em> his proper name. (Seriously: the name "Palpatine" isn't mentioned once in the OT.) </p><p>Scary and ugly and was a powerful Force User and evil; that's pretty much all we needed to know about both.</p><p></p><p>Who Snoke is isn't really a plot hook. Not really. It's a generic JJ Abrams mystery that is presented vaguely in case needed later.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, I think this has more to do with George Lucas and the EU and Star War's fans' ability to know everything about everyone including the entire Mos Eisley cantina. We're not use to blanks.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Why? We know more about him than Snoke and he's demonstrated a willingness to kill his parents and butcher innocents. What more do we need?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Why does the origin of her Force powers have to be known? Literally no other Jedi apart from Luke has an origin for their Force powers (as there's no other Jedi bloodlines). We don't know the origin of Palpatine's power. Or Yoda's. Or Mace Windu's, and he was probably the most powerful Jedi we've seen on screen.</p><p></p><p>Okay, we haven't seen a Grey Jedi before. And that would be interesting. But I don't think this is the place, as it needs to be a big climax to a trilogy. It needs to be good vs evil. </p><p>Having Rey fall and be saved by Ren and the Resistance also makes the end of the trilogy focused on redeeming a fallen Jedi, which was basically the plot of <em>Return of the Jedi</em>. Plus, it basically means Rey is a damsel that has to be saved (albeit from herself) <em>and</em> makes her less morally strong than Luke and Leia, since she wasn't able to resist the pull of the Dark Side. (Plus it pretty much negates Rey's status the first real female protagonist in Star Wars by making her the end villain of the Trilogy.)</p><p></p><p>Lucasfilms might not end up doing an Episode X and instead focus on other films and stories in Star Wars. Episode IX needs to be an "end" of something. And having the "Episodes" saga about the rise and fall of the Skywalker dynasty works. The life and legacy of Anakin Skywalker. Having Episode IX finish with the death of Ren and the end of the Skywalker bloodline wraps up that aspect, with the defeat of the Heir of Anakin. </p><p>But that works best of Ren is antagonistic rather than an antihero or protagonist. The end goal of the movie should be about stopping him. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Johnson talked about that and how they didn't really have anything to do in the film. Had he brought them in, it would have just replaced the Praetorian Guard. </p><p>Which leaves them to be a big focus in Episode IX.</p><p></p><p>Which is still weird as we know nothing of the Knights of Ren beyond their name. We don't really have a reason to care about them beyond them being a bunch of lesser Kylo Rens. The most interesting thing about them is really the mystery, and when you fill than in they will inevitably be less cool. </p><p>Think about it: they're former students of Luke who turned on the academy with Ren. They're basically the fallen Jedi equivalent of Crabbe and Goyle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 7533623, member: 37579"] I think the chain yanking has a LOT to do with people not liking [I]The Last Jedi[/I]. It spent a lot of its runtime zigging when everyone expected it to zag. We've been conditioned to expect certain things in these kind of movies over the last, well.... fifty years? Sixty? And this movie flipped the table each time. Suddenly we're out of our comfort zone and unhappy. (And then people complain about every Marvel movie being the same.) This assumes they changed it. They didn't. Abrams had an idea, but didn't share it. No one told Rian Johnson anything and he made no changes. He picked what he thought was the most interesting answer in terms of drama and theme. So a double Anakin who only had a mom? But... doesn't that just create more questions? (How? Why?) And it makes her a weird child of destiny/ chosen one. We know more about him than we knew about the Emperor in the Original Trilogy, as we know his title [I]and[/I] his proper name. (Seriously: the name "Palpatine" isn't mentioned once in the OT.) Scary and ugly and was a powerful Force User and evil; that's pretty much all we needed to know about both. Who Snoke is isn't really a plot hook. Not really. It's a generic JJ Abrams mystery that is presented vaguely in case needed later. Honestly, I think this has more to do with George Lucas and the EU and Star War's fans' ability to know everything about everyone including the entire Mos Eisley cantina. We're not use to blanks. Why? We know more about him than Snoke and he's demonstrated a willingness to kill his parents and butcher innocents. What more do we need? Why does the origin of her Force powers have to be known? Literally no other Jedi apart from Luke has an origin for their Force powers (as there's no other Jedi bloodlines). We don't know the origin of Palpatine's power. Or Yoda's. Or Mace Windu's, and he was probably the most powerful Jedi we've seen on screen. Okay, we haven't seen a Grey Jedi before. And that would be interesting. But I don't think this is the place, as it needs to be a big climax to a trilogy. It needs to be good vs evil. Having Rey fall and be saved by Ren and the Resistance also makes the end of the trilogy focused on redeeming a fallen Jedi, which was basically the plot of [I]Return of the Jedi[/I]. Plus, it basically means Rey is a damsel that has to be saved (albeit from herself) [I]and[/I] makes her less morally strong than Luke and Leia, since she wasn't able to resist the pull of the Dark Side. (Plus it pretty much negates Rey's status the first real female protagonist in Star Wars by making her the end villain of the Trilogy.) Lucasfilms might not end up doing an Episode X and instead focus on other films and stories in Star Wars. Episode IX needs to be an "end" of something. And having the "Episodes" saga about the rise and fall of the Skywalker dynasty works. The life and legacy of Anakin Skywalker. Having Episode IX finish with the death of Ren and the end of the Skywalker bloodline wraps up that aspect, with the defeat of the Heir of Anakin. But that works best of Ren is antagonistic rather than an antihero or protagonist. The end goal of the movie should be about stopping him. Johnson talked about that and how they didn't really have anything to do in the film. Had he brought them in, it would have just replaced the Praetorian Guard. Which leaves them to be a big focus in Episode IX. Which is still weird as we know nothing of the Knights of Ren beyond their name. We don't really have a reason to care about them beyond them being a bunch of lesser Kylo Rens. The most interesting thing about them is really the mystery, and when you fill than in they will inevitably be less cool. Think about it: they're former students of Luke who turned on the academy with Ren. They're basically the fallen Jedi equivalent of Crabbe and Goyle. [/QUOTE]
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