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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 4666378" data-attributes="member: 1003">1. They're bad tools. It's like using a SuperSoaker to put screws in drywall.2. I'm just talking about what I would do here. I really have no idea what gave you the impression I was trying to forbid your WrongBadFun. Do whatever you want man.<philosophical tangent>That's right; but I never ask "What's wrong with ..."; instead of always ask "How could this be better?".  That's how Pixar always turns out awesome movies; it's a rule within their studio that whenever someone presents an idea the other guy responds "Yes, and...?".  No accusations, just asking for more. I (and Steve Jobs) think its a very constructive mindset for producing outstanding creative projects.</philosophical tangent>In a normal campaign setting I would agree with you, but certain explicit features of Ravenloft (such as the Darklord's ability to close the borders of a domain) can make these facts painfully obvious to the PCs. Further, given the history of border closings it should be easily acquired folk wisdom within a domain that "If you get this far you're beyond (local Darklord's) reach."I agree that there's always a bit of a polite fiction on the DM fiat matter (the DM can always "win" if he wants to), but canon Ravenloft presents a unique issue of DM fiat which I find objectionable.  Because of the nature of the Demiplane and the various Domains' connection to their respective Lords, the very chain of cause and effect are turned over to the DM. The PCs are taken out of the driver seat right at the moment of what should be their greatest triumph (the defeat of a Darklord).Consider your barbarian horde thundering down off the steppe. The PCs may decide to attempt taking out the Great Khan, thus hopefully causing the barbarian coalition to fall apart and start fighting among themselves, thus saving the PC's homeland. Wouldn't it suck if instead they killed the Great Khan and *poof* (as a direct consequence of their actions) their homeland dropped into a Shadow Rift?  That's certainly not what they hoped for, and it's really out of left field, isn't it? But the RLCS gives the DM the explicit permission to be a jerk like that. His "Toolbox" includes explicit permissions to "reward" a major success with a Ravenloft Shaking Event (RLSE).So yeah, I think we could improve on that design.You're right. It can make the DM's job harder and isn't even necessary to the Core Story. Do you see why I'd "make that better"?On that one we're just going to have to disagree. Those are incredibly different genres, and the player's motivations will necessarily change significantly from one to the other. To suggest otherwise would seem to say (by analogy) that "Adopting a Star Wars tone, Star Trek tone, Aliens tone, Terminator tone or Paranoia tone should not effect the core story or motivation of the players." I think it clearly would.</blockquote>

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