Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Re Building the Halls of the Undermountain
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="smerwin29" data-source="post: 5890545" data-attributes="member: 15050"><p>Thanks Merric! I hope you find some stuff in there that you can use as well. And I really haven't been suffering all that long . . . ;-)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I understand what you are saying, Tom. I think I have had the opposite experience, but it just might be where I was in my life during each edition.</p><p></p><p>I found it harder to "bring stories" into adventures in pre-3E D&D. In the games I played and ran, it was much like there was a dichotomy between the two. First we had the story and interaction, then it was off to the big, sandboxy dungeon for the exploration and combat. Then we left the dungeon for most story and interaction. I think of the Temple of Elemental Evil, and once we entered the dungeons of the Temple itself, the plot was pretty much: "There is evil here, so kick its butt." There was a little story with the tensions between the different factions and what waited at the bottom of the temple, but without major DM additions it was very much a large dungeon where you had to just clean out one room after another after another after another.</p><p></p><p>A bit with 3E, and then a lot with 4E, the design of the rules lent to a different way to write, run, and play adventures. With the emphasis on "the encounter" as the adventuring unit of time rather than "the day," it became easier to control the stories. Designers and DMs could think of "events" rather than "areas," and events are a much better unit to hang a story on than areas. Of course you can tell a great story and run a great game using either, but obviously events are more narratively useful.</p><p></p><p>But I definitely agree with you that with 4e this structure became overwhelming. It was difficult to run more than 4 or 5 encounters in a row without a rest, which made the old dungeon delves of yore pretty hard to manage. As the DND Next designers have said, the exploration portion of the game lost a bit in the translation, because the focus of everything became the encounter, and little was done regarding what happens between the encounters.</p><p></p><p>When designing the Halls of Undermountain adventures, I really tried to harken back a bit to those old dungeons where the exploring was just as interesting as the fighting, while still adding a bit more story than just "here lies evil, so kill it."</p><p></p><p>I'm sure people will let me know if I failed. ;-)</p><p></p><p>Thanks!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="smerwin29, post: 5890545, member: 15050"] Thanks Merric! I hope you find some stuff in there that you can use as well. And I really haven't been suffering all that long . . . ;-) I understand what you are saying, Tom. I think I have had the opposite experience, but it just might be where I was in my life during each edition. I found it harder to "bring stories" into adventures in pre-3E D&D. In the games I played and ran, it was much like there was a dichotomy between the two. First we had the story and interaction, then it was off to the big, sandboxy dungeon for the exploration and combat. Then we left the dungeon for most story and interaction. I think of the Temple of Elemental Evil, and once we entered the dungeons of the Temple itself, the plot was pretty much: "There is evil here, so kick its butt." There was a little story with the tensions between the different factions and what waited at the bottom of the temple, but without major DM additions it was very much a large dungeon where you had to just clean out one room after another after another after another. A bit with 3E, and then a lot with 4E, the design of the rules lent to a different way to write, run, and play adventures. With the emphasis on "the encounter" as the adventuring unit of time rather than "the day," it became easier to control the stories. Designers and DMs could think of "events" rather than "areas," and events are a much better unit to hang a story on than areas. Of course you can tell a great story and run a great game using either, but obviously events are more narratively useful. But I definitely agree with you that with 4e this structure became overwhelming. It was difficult to run more than 4 or 5 encounters in a row without a rest, which made the old dungeon delves of yore pretty hard to manage. As the DND Next designers have said, the exploration portion of the game lost a bit in the translation, because the focus of everything became the encounter, and little was done regarding what happens between the encounters. When designing the Halls of Undermountain adventures, I really tried to harken back a bit to those old dungeons where the exploring was just as interesting as the fighting, while still adding a bit more story than just "here lies evil, so kill it." I'm sure people will let me know if I failed. ;-) Thanks! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Re Building the Halls of the Undermountain
Top