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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Re-introducing reversible spells
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<blockquote data-quote="Hashmalum" data-source="post: 1000680" data-attributes="member: 9450"><p>The reason I set the Spellcraft req where it is is that in previous editions of D&D (where the idea came from), characters could use the reversed forms of spells from the get-go. OTOH I just noticed that the other metamagic req goes against this, at least for nonhumans (since they only get one feat at 1st level). So at this point I'm not sure.</p><p></p><p>It doesn't sound that impractical, really. Spells usually aren't created in matching pairs of opposite effects of equal level, unless they're conversions of a reversible spell from earlier editions of the game. And maintaining that feature from earlier editions was the point of doing the feats in the first place. So the number of updates should be quite manageable, especially if you're fairly picky (like I am) about what new spells you allow into the game.</p><p></p><p>I did think of the spell countering thing, but not only does it not get all the spells it (IMO) ought to get, but it has three problems:</p><p></p><p>(1) It's potentially abusable. Consider the case of a sorcerer who has the Reverse Spell feat and creates his own spells--all of which are specified as being able to counter at least one other spell. He's effectively doubled his spells known for one feat. The feat wasn't intended to provide that many extra spells.</p><p></p><p>(2) It doesn't work well with spells that counter multiple other spells. <em>Deeper darkness</em> counters all light spells of equal or lower level, of which there are at least three that I know of: <em>light</em>, <em>daylight</em>, and <em>continual flame</em>. Again, I didn't intend it to provide that much of a bonus. It could get even worse if you create spells whose sole purpose is to counter other spells, like those Magic: the Gathering spell adaptations that Michael Morris was doing.</p><p></p><p>(3) It adds a few spell pairs that aren't true opposites. <em>Black blade of disaster</em> (from <em>Magic of Faerun</em>) can be countered by <em>gate</em>, but it is in no way an opposite of <em>gate</em>; in fact, it's basically a blade-shaped planar opening, more like a modified <em>gate</em> in this sense than a true opposite.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hashmalum, post: 1000680, member: 9450"] The reason I set the Spellcraft req where it is is that in previous editions of D&D (where the idea came from), characters could use the reversed forms of spells from the get-go. OTOH I just noticed that the other metamagic req goes against this, at least for nonhumans (since they only get one feat at 1st level). So at this point I'm not sure. It doesn't sound that impractical, really. Spells usually aren't created in matching pairs of opposite effects of equal level, unless they're conversions of a reversible spell from earlier editions of the game. And maintaining that feature from earlier editions was the point of doing the feats in the first place. So the number of updates should be quite manageable, especially if you're fairly picky (like I am) about what new spells you allow into the game. I did think of the spell countering thing, but not only does it not get all the spells it (IMO) ought to get, but it has three problems: (1) It's potentially abusable. Consider the case of a sorcerer who has the Reverse Spell feat and creates his own spells--all of which are specified as being able to counter at least one other spell. He's effectively doubled his spells known for one feat. The feat wasn't intended to provide that many extra spells. (2) It doesn't work well with spells that counter multiple other spells. [I]Deeper darkness[/I] counters all light spells of equal or lower level, of which there are at least three that I know of: [I]light[/I], [I]daylight[/I], and [I]continual flame[/I]. Again, I didn't intend it to provide that much of a bonus. It could get even worse if you create spells whose sole purpose is to counter other spells, like those Magic: the Gathering spell adaptations that Michael Morris was doing. (3) It adds a few spell pairs that aren't true opposites. [I]Black blade of disaster[/I] (from [I]Magic of Faerun[/I]) can be countered by [I]gate[/I], but it is in no way an opposite of [I]gate[/I]; in fact, it's basically a blade-shaped planar opening, more like a modified [I]gate[/I] in this sense than a true opposite. [/QUOTE]
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