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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anthony Terry" data-source="post: 6507289" data-attributes="member: 6776492">And if you stood their and fought it with nothing on your stat block from the sounds of it without using very select methods it would indeed be the very highest CR in the game... Low intel monsters with High CR are meant to be beaten with guess what intelligence, so i really do not understand the issue, if figured out ligimitally in game, with it being beaten as described. The only real thing here that anyone's put forward as a valid point of view is that they've had allot of characters Meta game the <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> out of this encounter and allot of people have just played it out as written and watched their big bad monster die to said Meta game, how the hell did that have anything to do with any other than them?Also your point about having to design a how encounter around it, are you for real? Its literally a mythological creature of legend and the second or highest CR in the whole of 5th edition, if your telling me it doesnt deserve a moments thought and effort to make it pretty epic then remind me to not show up at your table any time soon. (tongue and cheek intended opposed to genuine insult) How exactly is this thing encountered any way? Just stood in some <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> of massive cavern with no exits? Just shrink the ceiling? Have him cave it in on top of everyone as hes dieing, possibly trapping the flying wizard? Is there no other more remotely intelligent bad guys around getting involved in this, perhaps if you expect your party of Meta gaming vustly, just have the BBEG thats not got 3 intelligence do the same, and meta game the hell out of them back?After re reading your post to answer your personal major concern, its difference to other editions, i would suggest this is by far not the only monster to be changed in such a manner and is in slight a hand over from both 3.5 and more so 4th where this happened to allot of monsters, ALLOT and i just don't get what your trying to say about the fluff. The fluff is more attached to the creatures legend, are you suggesting even with its 5th edition stats it hasnt gone round leveling entire civilizations that didn't happen to have a wizard? Even from 1st to 2nd their was a huge shift in monster design away from having by standard unbeatable monsters, by 3.5 even gods had achievable stats. Is this an issue? Sure. Ironically tho its an issue caused by them working towards what your asking for in my personal opinion, simple fights based souly of stat blocks, to be fair i guess its not that much of you to ask if their to adopt that strategy to put perhaps more than minimal effort in but i really don't think its required, at the end of the day if the wizzard called it like the above no one else in the party is even getting any exp, i doubt the thing has treasure, so really at the end of the day what is the problem? Either buff it up to meet the legend because your worlds full of lvl 6+ wizzards or just dont let the whole module hinge on this one encounter for its excitement facter?</blockquote>

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