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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Icharbezol" data-source="post: 6867495" data-attributes="member: 89262">My general rule of thumb is if it works for the PCs, it also works for the monsters. If my players' characters can shut down the fun stuff monsters can do, then the monsters should be able to do likewise. I'm not pulling anything out of the ether to do it, just the game rules. The problem I face up against is that my players include many of the types that yours do not, and they will rigorously use any rules and rulings to their advantage while conveniently forgetting those rules and rulings if applied by monsters to their PCs. The subject of this thread is a case in point, as is your hellish rebuke example. The group in question has been willing to argue that SG shuts down reactions so Shield, UD, and Hellish Rebuke are all unusable by the NPCs they have assaulted and yet they have also argued that SG should not shut down their own versions of such since [insert all arguments as to why not already echoed here].So yeah what's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that.</blockquote>